Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

What motor oil do you use

Conventional
14
32%
Synthetic
24
55%
Synthetic Blend
6
14%
 
Total votes : 44

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: DePippo79 On: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:54 pm

In the daily drivers I run synthetic. I commute 500 miles a week and drive hard. In the toys I just run Castrol GTX conventional. Taken motors apart that use Castrol and there pretty clean with minimal wear. One day I'm going to take a synthetic oil only motor apart and do my own comparison. If you change the oil often use anything. Its the additives that break down not the oil. On heavy equipment most companies just change the filters and top off. Taken motors apart that use Walmart oil and no major problems due to oil. Mostly people driving around with bad head/intake gaskets so thier oil looks like a milkshake. Then you have the people that refuse to do any maintenance. I had a Buick that had over 300,000 miles on it using conventional before the wife, girlfriend at the time crashed it.
DePippo79
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak 40
Coal Size/Type: Stove, nut/anthracite

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:54 pm

grumpy wrote:
I'm On Fire wrote:Synthetic in my wife's Subaru, synthetic in my truck, synthetic in the weedwacker, synthetic in the lawnmower, synthetic in the generator.



LOL, if I ran synthetic in the generator it wouldn't make 1000 rpm, it smokes big time when I shut it down, I think the rings are shot, need a new diesel.. I can dream no ?

Edit to add, Smitty help...lol :lol:


I change the oil every time I run the generator whether it needs it or not. I spent a lot of money on it and it's paid for itself so I take care of it. In fact I should really get morivated and adjust the valves in it before winter sets in.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: Wiz On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:55 pm

Switch over to mobile 1 full synthetic in both vehicles plus quads. Some mention it improves mpg but I haven't seen it.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(


Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:13 pm

I used to work for an oil additives manufacturer. The top research specialist (scientist) at the firm told me that conventional Exxon base-stock containing oils (such as Castrol) beat the pants off of Mobil I in all of their tests, be they the FALEX Four-Ball Wear Test or whatever. The trick is to find oils using Exxon base stocks. Pennsylvania crudes are all lousy per the same source. Too much natural wax in them, which means not enough available space between the molecules to hold a good quantity of the oil additives that are far superior to natural waxes. When I asked this research expert at the firm: "Who makes the very best motor oil?", his answer was consistently "I do!".

The story as I heard it was that there was a time in the past when the Pennsylvania oils were considered the very best due at least in part to the lubricity properties of their natural waxes. But with additives this natural benefit eventually became a hindrance to further performance improvements.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:27 pm

I use synthetic oil in all the diffs,transmission,and transfer case but conventional oil in the motors. I have never had a problem with any motor and all have had over 200,000,my 7.3 diesel Ford has 315,500 on it now has towed heavy well over 100,000 miles,oil pressure is still on the high side and still has plenty of power I just use a good oil and filters. Now the rust on the body is a different story,synthetic oil isn't going to help me now :( .Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:03 pm

Larry, that guy fed you a lot of bs.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: Cap On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:05 pm

I lived only a few miles from Mobil Research in Paulsboro, NJ....home of Mobil 1.

Anyway, I was in this research facility on many occasions to service a liquid co2 tank & pump. This place was neat. They had BMW's on racks running non-stop, stopping the engines only to change the oil. I was told back then by the research plant operators that Mobil 1 never breaks down and you only need to top off and replace filters. That was in the 90's when it was listed as the 25,000 mi oil. Mobil 1 doesn't advertise 25,000 mi any longer. I wonder if they changed the formula or just need sell more oil?

I've changed to synthetic oil mainly for the fact it flows better for cold starts in winter and lengthens the change intervals. But I am not a firm believer it will offer a real advantage over a 10 yr period of conventional oil use unless you are driving daily stop & go in the city.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:26 pm

Rob R. wrote:Larry, that guy fed you a lot of bs.


But I also watched the Falex wear ball testing in process, saw the results, and discussed this issue with the Technicians who were actually performing the tests, and they gave me the same answer, that Exxon base stock oils with a quality additives package are superior to synthetics and PA crude stock based oils. This was in the mid 1980's though, and Mobil 1 was nigh on the only synthetic game in town (with Amsoil being then the bit player that it still is today), so perhaps things are different now. ???
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:07 pm

The differences observed in the 4-ball test are much more related to the additive package than the base stock...Head 'n Shoulders shampoo performs admirably in that test, but that doesn't make it a good engine oil. The guys you talked to were correct that a quality additive package can lead to good results in performance tests.

lsayre wrote:Pennsylvania crudes are all lousy per the same source. Too much natural wax in them, which means not enough available space between the molecules to hold a good quantity of the oil additives that are far superior to natural waxes.


I heard that paraffinic oils have a saturated molecular structure, which chemists attempt to recreate without impurities. PAO base stocks are a good example. PAO based lubes have outstanding extreme temperature performance and some other benefits, but the one area they lag is additive solubility.

Why does L.E. use U.S. Mid-Continent paraffinic base oils to manufacture their lubricants?
While there are a number of major crude oil sources around the world, U.S. Mid-Continent is acknowledged as the best for lubricating oil. The Mid-Continent includes Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana and Oklahoma. By definition, paraffinic base oils contain a small amount of napthenics & aromatics which are a major group of unsaturated cyclic hydrocarbons. Aromatics can cause seal and hose hardness & loss of pliability. Both aromatics and napthenics reduce a lubricant's oxidation resistance, film strength and increase the volatility (evaporation rate). Lubrication Engineers utilizes an extra refining step to remove more of these undesirables. Other lubricant suppliers do not. In addition, each incoming base oil shipment is tested to our stringent quality control specifications which dictate a maximum allowable amount of aromatics and napthenics, along with other criteria. With the selection and use of Mid-Continent paraffinic base oils processed with an extra refining step, Lubrication Engineers oils have a chemical composition and performance similar to synthetic oils (PAO's) resulting in excellent oxidation resistance, low volatility, long life & few deposits and sludge. In addition they have greater additive solubility than PAO's, preventing "additive dropout" and allowing stronger doses of additives to be used when required by tough applications.


http://www.le-international.com/faq.aspx?page=1

PA crude hasn't totally gone away either. Brad Penn is made in Bradford, PA...the same refinery that made the famous Kendall GT1 race oil.

http://www.penngrade1.com/
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:14 pm

The one question I never thought to ask was: Where does Exxon get the superior base stock for its oils (or others apparently based upon their base stock supply, such as Castrol) from?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:18 pm

If natural based oils were superior to synthetic, then the synthetic would never have been developed. I read somewhere years ago that the first synthetic oil was developed for the jet engines. Temp differences in the engines caused problems with conventional oils. At altitude the oil is subjected to extremely high and then extremely low temps.
Come to think of it, I think the French developed a special oil for the Concord.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
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Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:21 pm

I think the main area where synthetics shine is in their ability to not sludge out. But until a conventional oil sludges out (does the wax have something to do with this?) a conventional oil can be superior in lubrication. Perhaps the unique characteristics of a jet engine would cause sludging to accelerate for conventional oils?
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:22 pm

From my friends in the small auto racing communities and some anecdotal evidence from lobster boat racing, virtually no one uses a convention oil in anything on a race car/engine. Why would the Corvette come with a tag on the engine to use ONLY Mobil 1? For years now that is the case.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:23 pm

Castrol is a blender, that is they buy their base oils from other companies. I have no idea who buys what from whom.

KLook wrote:If natural based oils were superior to synthetic, then the synthetic would never have been developed. I read somewhere years ago that the first synthetic oil was developed for the jet engines. Temp differences in the caused problems with conventional oils. At altitude the oil is subjected to extremely high and then extremely low temps.
Come to think of it, I think the French developed a special oil for the Concord.

Kevin


I was not implying that petroleum based oils were superior, just pointing out that there are a few aspects that synthetic lubricants struggled to match for a long time. Additive solubility is one, seal elasticity is another...both of which have been solved with modern chemistry.

Synthetics certainly handle extreme temperatures better than any petroleum based oil. I have also heard that jet engines were the first application.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Synthetic or Conventional motor oil

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:24 pm

KLook wrote:From my friends in the small auto racing communities and some anecdotal evidence from lobster boat racing, virtually no one uses a convention oil in anything on a race car/engine. Why would the Corvette come with a tag on the engine to use ONLY Mobil 1? For years now that is the case.

Kevin


Extreme temperatures. Somewhere I read that they didn't want to install an oil cooler, so the solution was Mobil 1.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy