Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: Loves Burning Rocks On: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:54 am

Summary:
I'm rebuilding my Surdiac 513D. I have it all apart and just assumed I would remove all the old cement before applying the new cement. Easier said than done. It is white and yellowish in color and very hard. I'm thinking many hours with a chisel will be required. Now I'm wondering if I can't just remove any old cement that comes off easily, apply the new cement and reassemble?

Background Info:
Stove was in my house when I bought it in 2006. I'm pretty sure the morons I bought my house from overheated the crap out of the stove at least once, don't think they used it much otherwise. It probably scared them. They were only here 3 years so the stove preceded them. I suspected overheating because one of the paddles (the heavy removable plates that sit on the back of the firebasket) was warped. Also the bottom of the hopper looked eroded, maybe warped, had a redish color to it. I replaced the gasketing and learned how to use the stove pretty well if I do say so myself, was my winter heat for 6 years. I found some basic instructions on starting the stove on the internet, didn't find this forum until tonight. I had never seen any good pics of my stove model before I registered here. Reason for the rebuild is the bottom of the hopper has gradually been eroding upwards to the point where I couldn't keep coal from tumbling out of the stove every time I opened the firebox door. I figured out just by logic that the bottom of the hopper had just gotten too high, so I bought new hopper halves and tore the stove down. The cross section of the bottom of the new hopper looks like a rectangle. The cross section of the old hopper looks like an hour glass shape! Lol, I had just assumed that was the normal shape. I also recently found a complete set of door glass pieces hidden away in a garage cabinet that were almost all severely warped! I've never had any issue with leakage, i.e. no high room CO readings and when the thermostat valve is closed the stove output does drop properly. The main metal pieces of the stove don't look like they are warped at all. I know this was kinda long, I guess I just wanted to vent to an appreciative audience how my poor stove had been abused. So again, should I remove all the old cement or not?

Some pics:
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Last edited by Loves Burning Rocks on Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Loves Burning Rocks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Gotha 513D

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:43 am

LBR welcome to the forum, be patient and im sure some resident Surdiac owners will be able to help out soon. Posting pictures will make things easier for other members to chime in also. Good luck on your rebuild and again welcome to the forum.
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Nut/Anthracite

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: dcrane On: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:23 am

welcome, great to have new people with the desire to make coal work for them :clap:

Im just going to give my opinion (for the little its worth) ...The Surdiac was never a great a great coal burning stove ... it could be a variety of reasons... coal is vastly different in France, the design always had warpage issues from heat, the grate system simply did not work, etc. I can always recall my dad expressing his disbelief people were buying this stove over here (he liked the Godin as a French coal burner much better).

In terms of old cement... if you have the stove apart, you should most defiantly clean off old cemented seams (a sand blaster is ideal but most people would use a wire wheel on your drill or wire wheel on your grinder for this purpose).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: Loves Burning Rocks On: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:23 pm

pics added to 1st post

So, concensus - chisel and wire brush all the old cement off?
Loves Burning Rocks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Gotha 513D

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:25 am

I don't think you have to remove the old cement if you get rid of the loose stuff and are able to re assemble in such a way that the old cement does not hold seams apart. Maybe easy, maybe not. It means assembling it exactly as it was. If that can't be done then you have to remove the old cement.

Surdiacs can be found pretty cheap in better condition than that so that might be a better way to go.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:17 am

who goes through all the work of taking a stove apart for refurbish and does not clean out all the old cement? :shock:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: Loves Burning Rocks On: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:28 pm

dcrane wrote:who goes through all the work of taking a stove apart for refurbish and does not clean out all the old cement? :shock:


Someone who doesn't want to waste their time

Do you scrape all the old paint off the walls every time you repaint a room?
Loves Burning Rocks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Gotha 513D

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:47 pm

In my experience furnace cement is very brittle and once you get a half round chisel under it in those grooves it should chip out pretty easily. Get a piece of drill rod the size of the channels and grind the end to an angle. Heat the end red hot and plunge it in water. Polish the end and heat it slowly to a straw color and plunge it again. That's your chisel.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:47 am

Loves Burning Rocks wrote:
dcrane wrote:who goes through all the work of taking a stove apart for refurbish and does not clean out all the old cement? :shock:


Someone who doesn't want to waste their time

Do you scrape all the old paint off the walls every time you repaint a room?


In essence what your doing when you do not clean the seams and contact point before re-assembly is making a very poor quality casting and then trying to make up for this very poor quality casting by filling that seam with extra "muck/gasketing/glue".... this will work and this will function OK after squeezing MO & MO "Muck at it... but it will come back to haunt you (as all poor quality jobs do, be it painting, building, etc) and the lifespan of that job will be reduced dramatically!... and worst... when you go to fix that job its going to be dramatically more difficult every time to do it properly!

obviously these are just opinions and maybe castings with rock hard "pooopies" left along the seams don't mean anything at all... but if its me, and I have it taken apart completely... im allowing the seams to contact/mate/connect beautifully with each other before sealing them. Worst case is you can take a 5" grinder with a Norton disk on it and gently clean these seams and contact points if your finding to tedious to deal with (that will be better than leaving it their) ;)
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: Loves Burning Rocks On: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:03 pm

OK, thanks for the replies despite my sarcasm. I do appreciate it, I do want it done right.
Loves Burning Rocks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: Gotha 513D

Re: Rebuilding - Have to scrape off all old cement?

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:13 pm

Loves Burning Rocks wrote:OK, thanks for the replies despite my sarcasm. I do appreciate it, I do want it done right.


no problems on the sarcasm (im the worst offender at times ;) ), at heart all of us only try our best for good solutions, good topics, good help and good friends to have a laugh with!
Let us know how it goes and remember we love finish photo's! :punk:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Visit Hitzer Stoves

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