keysoker by pass loop

keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: tnt600 On: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:52 pm

I just had a keystoker kb-8 installed and the installer never put a by pass loop in. So now I'm trying to figure out a easy way to do it.If you look at the picture. I was thinking if I hook the feed and return together a the t's it will make a big loop. will this work? should I use the same size pipe 11/4 or reduce it. I think reduce to like 3/4 for a little back pressure so water will push to my heating coil. my circulator pump is on the return side will this matter?
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tnt600
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kb-8
Coal Size/Type: rice

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:07 pm

Pictures of by pass loop done correctly. ..
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Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:06 pm

Is there an unused return port on the Keystoker?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:09 pm

2 ports on bottom of the boiler. In my set up one port simply has the boiler drain. If his is the same, the loop could be connected there and the drain simply T'd off at the bottom.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: oliver power On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:31 am

Wiz wrote:Pictures of by pass loop done correctly. ..
20131102_092916.jpg
20131102_092857.jpg
I would think you'd want that bypass return to tie in before the circulator , not "T" into the side after the circulator. Or, am I not getting something ........
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:41 am

FYI from keystoker
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Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 am

Oops
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Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Wiz On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:45 am

oliver power wrote:
Wiz wrote:Pictures of by pass loop done correctly. ..
20131102_092916.jpg
20131102_092857.jpg
I would think you'd want that bypass return to tie in before the circulator , not "T" into the side after the circulator. Or, am I not getting something ........


Plumber I used is a certified master plumber. During install he had question the by pass loop with keystoker themselves. I'm going to say it was done correctly
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Wiz On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:48 am

Rob R. wrote:Is there an unused return port on the Keystoker?


Yes
..
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:40 am

Also
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Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:45 am

My question would be how does the bypass loop work in your system wiz as there is no circulator making it flow? Gravity? Or are you taking the hot water off the bottom? Even looking at the schematic put up I don't understand what makes the water flow. I installed a small circulator from the top back to the bottom of my VF3000 and it worked great.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Wiz On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:11 am

KLook wrote:My question would be how does the bypass loop work in your system wiz as there is no circulator making it flow? Gravity? Or are you taking the hot water off the bottom? Even looking at the schematic put up I don't understand what makes the water flow. I installed a small circulator from the top back to the bottom of my VF3000 and it worked great.

Kevin


It's set up taking hot water off off the bottom then returns it to the supply prior to boiler. Allowing hot water to mixes with return line on top of boiler. It works. ;)
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:20 am

So the circulator is pulling away from the boiler? Why does that not just pull cool water from the supply(now the cold return) across and bypass the boiler? Water is like electricity and will follow the path of least resistance if given a chance. I saw one set up this way in Maine and was baffled. It seems that you are mixing cold with hot and reducing the output water temp. And dumping cold right on top of the hottest part of your boiler, inducing more boiler shock?
I am missing something simple here.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:22 am

That dang schematic needs some arrows for flow.

kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: keysoker by pass loop

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:33 am

What Keystoker calls a "bypass loop" is really an "equalizer loop"...but it sort of functions as a bypass if you have it piped correctly. :wacko:

The way that Wiz has his piped, some water will flow through the "bypass" due to a pressure differential created by the circulator, but how much is a mystery and uncontrollable without a valve.

EFM recommends installing a valve in the return between the boiler and the bypass, this allows you to throttle how much flow bypasses the boiler. This is useful when you have a high mass system such as a converted gravity hot water system...the hundreds of gallons of water take a long time to heat up, and adjusting the bypass reduces the volume of cold water that hits the boiler.

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The other reason to install a loop from the supply to return, with or without balancing valves, is to keep the temperature in the boiler uniform when it is idling. Van Wert called this a "bypass equalizer ". Without it the water in the boiler will stratify and the hottest water collects at the top of the boiler. Notice in the illustration that the equalizer loop connects to a separate port in the boiler, it is not connected to the return piping.

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In this case I would add a tee in the piping coming out of the top of the K8 and connect it to the unused return port. This will prevent water from stratifying in the boiler. Considering the large mass of the boiler compared to the small diameter piping and water to air heat exchanger, the system should operate fine without a true "bypass".
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Visit Lehigh Anthracite