storage tanks

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:40 pm

kstills wrote:
CoalBurner5 wrote:I agree with the concept of running the circulators longer but at a lower temp.. I can see the benefits there. My problem is that I believe the l7224 was not wired correctly in the first place. I believe that the stoker is wired into the l7224 and it will run (regardless of what the temperature is) as long as any circulator pump is called on.

I think there is the problem. But again i'm not a hvac guy. I'm just trying to figure this out because there is noway i should be burning this much coal.


Well, that doesn't sound right.

I have the L7224 on mine, and it only turns on when the LL is hit. Of course, since I have about 75 gallons of water in the two zones, it get's hit every time I get a tstat call.


That is because you are not signaling a heat call via the TT terminals.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:48 pm

Rob R. wrote:
kstills wrote:
CoalBurner5 wrote:I agree with the concept of running the circulators longer but at a lower temp.. I can see the benefits there. My problem is that I believe the l7224 was not wired correctly in the first place. I believe that the stoker is wired into the l7224 and it will run (regardless of what the temperature is) as long as any circulator pump is called on.

I think there is the problem. But again i'm not a hvac guy. I'm just trying to figure this out because there is noway i should be burning this much coal.


Well, that doesn't sound right.

I have the L7224 on mine, and it only turns on when the LL is hit. Of course, since I have about 75 gallons of water in the two zones, it get's hit every time I get a tstat call.


That is because you are not signaling a heat call via the TT terminals.


I'm not?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:01 pm

Can't be, otherwise the stoker would start anytime there was a heat call and the boiler temp. was below the high limit setting. If you don't believe me, take a short piece of wire and short the TT terminals with it...the stoker should start provided the boiler isn't already bumping the high limit.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:11 pm

Rob R. wrote:Can't be, otherwise the stoker would start anytime there was a heat call and the boiler temp. was below the high limit setting. If you don't believe me, take a short piece of wire and short the TT terminals with it...the stoker should start provided the boiler isn't already bumping the high limit.


I believe you, why would you want to run the boiler before it hit the LL?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:50 am

Here are pictures of what I am heating I will further explain everything in the next post
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CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:02 am

I am wondering how gravity will keep the water in the tank from the first pic?????? Just kidding. You can benefit from any storage tankage, however do what you want. Here on the forum, you will find many opinions, and unless you are a coal mizer, I would not worry about the reheat issue. Most of us run circs 24/7 so that is a non issue to anyone who has done this for some time. You can call it heat loss if you like, but if it is in a 'conditioned area' it merely is contributing to the mass already being 'conditioned'. If your 'shorts are tooooooo tight' to accept this logic, then by all means don't do this. The OWB guys would laugh at you as they heat areas that could not be kept warm before, and the excessive fuel usage to them is a non-issue. In a perfect world we would not talk about this, anyway. tell all the folks that heat a pool........it takes what it takes, provided you are willing to do what is necessary to make it happen. :idea:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:06 am

How did you get your pex that straight?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:09 am

Sorry i've tried to fix the flipped pictures and i cant do it.

Picture 1 is of the house that it supplies... When the picture is right side up, the right side of the house is on it's own zone. It has 9 cast iron radiators and 30 feet of slant fin baseboard. The left side of the house upstairs is run by 65 feet of cast iron 8 inch baseboard, and the first floor is currently run by heat exchanger(hot water to air). Hopefully this will be changed over this weekend, as i have all the infloor heat run.

Picture 2 is of the flue pipe. It exits the house and then goes through a 30-35 ft brick chimney. (AND TO THINK I HAD A DRAFT PROBLEM)

Picture 3 is of the honeywell L7224 which is where i think my problem is actually at. It triggers the stoker to run every single time there is a heat call. Even if the water temp is above the low limit.

Picture 4 is of the unit itself. I do have a boiler by pass in the system, i also have each zone differently the red pex tubing supplies the 65 ft of 8inch cast iron baseboard. The middle gray pex supplies the current forced air system, which will hopefully be changed over to the infloor heat this weekend. and the far 1 inch pex supplies the 9 radiators and 30 ft of slant fin.

I honestly do not think the system is getting shocked with cold water. For some reason, the water will not climb to the hight temp (EVER). and is the l7224 seems to kick the stoker on every single time there is a call for heat.
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:12 am

Yeah, there is an idea, why couldn't i run one pump 24/7. And then i could remove a pump or two if i needed to. Do you think that would make sense in my setup????
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:17 am

whistlenut wrote:I am wondering how gravity will keep the water in the tank from the first pic?????? :




Dang, beat me to it!
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:21 am

CoalBurner5 wrote:Sorry i've tried to fix the flipped pictures and i cant do it.

Picture 1 is of the house that it supplies... When the picture is right side up, the right side of the house is on it's own zone. It has 9 cast iron radiators and 30 feet of slant fin baseboard. The left side of the house upstairs is run by 65 feet of cast iron 8 inch baseboard, and the first floor is currently run by heat exchanger(hot water to air). Hopefully this will be changed over this weekend, as i have all the infloor heat run.

Picture 2 is of the flue pipe. It exits the house and then goes through a 30-35 ft brick chimney. (AND TO THINK I HAD A DRAFT PROBLEM)

Picture 3 is of the honeywell L7224 which is where i think my problem is actually at. It triggers the stoker to run every single time there is a heat call. Even if the water temp is above the low limit.

Picture 4 is of the unit itself. I do have a boiler by pass in the system, i also have each zone differently the red pex tubing supplies the 65 ft of 8inch cast iron baseboard. The middle gray pex supplies the current forced air system, which will hopefully be changed over to the infloor heat this weekend. and the far 1 inch pex supplies the 9 radiators and 30 ft of slant fin.

I honestly do not think the system is getting shocked with cold water. For some reason, the water will not climb to the hight temp (EVER). and is the l7224 seems to kick the stoker on every single time there is a call for heat.


Before I put in my primary secondary, I would hit the hi limit and trigger the dump zone every day.

Since I put in the primary, even if I'm just running it through the indirect, I never, ever hit the HL on the aquastat.

I do run 24/7, and I've found that that vents enough heat to keep me right at the LL setpoint.

The way Rob was explaining it, you are probably wired differently on your Aquastat than I am, but I wasn't competent enough to do that myself so I'll let someone else handle that issue. I know that the way I'm set up my zones call for heat and the boiler has to drop below the LL before the stoker kicks on, so I'm sure you could be set up to run that way. However, I'm not sure that in the long run it would make a difference.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:50 am

So i guess my questions are as follows:

1.) assuming i leave the setup as is right now, can someone set me straight on how the wiring should be done? I don't want the boiler to maintain the low limit temp and i do not want the stoker to turn on every time there is a heat call. I only want the stoker to stoke when it drops below the low limit and when the timer calls for it.

2.) which method do you think would be most efficient?
1.-being the current set up when it is wired correctly?
2.- a primary loop that is circulating 24/7 and then secondary loops coming off that primary loop when each zone calls for heat?
3.-run the whole system on a 24/7 circulating pump?

I am sure there are others out there that are heating an area of this size, could you guys give me feedback on how your system is setup and how much coal you guys consume.
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:27 am

CoalBurner5 wrote:So i guess my questions are as follows:

1.) assuming i leave the setup as is right now, can someone set me straight on how the wiring should be done? I don't want the boiler to maintain the low limit temp and i do not want the stoker to turn on every time there is a heat call. I only want the stoker to stoke when it drops below the low limit and when the timer calls for it.

2.) which method do you think would be most efficient?
1.-being the current set up when it is wired correctly?
2.- a primary loop that is circulating 24/7 and then secondary loops coming off that primary loop when each zone calls for heat?
3.-run the whole system on a 24/7 circulating pump?

I am sure there are others out there that are heating an area of this size, could you guys give me feedback on how your system is setup and how much coal you guys consume.


Okay, let's try Number 1 :)
Like to try and help...need to know some info of how you're wired now. Too many ways to skin this cat. :D
In the boiler room, where are each of the zone t'stats connected now? relays or ???

With my L7224, the stoker fires only if 2 things are met...
1.)Circulator is running (because a t'stat is calling) and also...
2.) High Limit switch has dropped below it's differential setting amount.

The Low Limit switch has no function since I have no need of maintaining min. boiler temps for a tankless coil, as I run a (Zone) Indirect water heater.
Last edited by McGiever on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:30 am

I forgot to mention that i do run my domestic through the boiler and then take it out to a hot water heater to reduce the electric bill on the hot water heater.

I will have to double check all the wiring when i go home tonight. I can't remember everything off the top of my head. So i will update on wiring this evening.
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:38 am

McGiever wrote:Okay, let's try Number 1 :)
Like to try and help...need to know some info of how you're wired now. Too many ways to skin this cat. :D
In the boiler room, where are each of the zone t'stats connected now? relays or ???

With my L7224, the stoker fires only if 2 things are met...
1.)Circulator is running (because a t'stat is calling) and also...
2.) High Limit switch has dropped below it's differential setting amount.

The Low Limit switch has no function since I have no need of maintaining min. boiler temps for a tankless coil, as I run a (Zone) Indirect water heater.



Hmm, something else to think about for me, at least. :)

I assume wiring the way you have it with the HL differential calling for the stoker, as opposed to my 7224 kicking on when the LL differential is reached, would be pretty straight forward. Question is can the LL and HL be set at the same set point, or within a degree or two of each other to accomplish the same result without any adverse consequences?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line