storage tanks

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:05 pm

McGiever wrote:
SMITTY wrote:The B terminals only energize when the boiler temp is below the high limit minus the differential and, there's a call for heat at the same time. Also energizes when boiler temp hits low limit.

Sounds like the stoker might be wired to the C1, C2 terminals - those should only run the circulators.


More than one zone, and nothing gets wired to C1, C2 on aquastat.



What do you wire your primary to?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:07 pm

So many ways to skin this cat...

kstills wrote:
McGiever wrote:
SMITTY wrote:The B terminals only energize when the boiler temp is below the high limit minus the differential and, there's a call for heat at the same time. Also energizes when boiler temp hits low limit.

Sounds like the stoker might be wired to the C1, C2 terminals - those should only run the circulators.


More than one zone, and nothing gets wired to C1, C2 on aquastat.



What do you wire your primary to?


I don't have a primary. :oops:


SMITTY wrote:C = circulator - that's the way every oil boiler I've ever seen is wired. I have 3 zones with zone valves, and one circ for all of them - that circ is wired to the C terminals. What else would kick it on when there's a call for heat?


Better if I said...for more than one circulator...instead of zones. i overlooked people that zone w/ valves, Sorry :oops:
Last edited by McGiever on Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:10 pm

I remember my parent's house had 2 circs - one for each zone. That had another little box to control the second circ, I believe .. because my boiler doesn't have that second box.



kstills wrote:What do you wire your primary to?

Primary what? :confused:

Oil burner to B terminals, Circ to C terminals, thermostat to TT terminals, and DHW tank to ZC terminal.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:12 pm

SMITTY wrote:I remember my parent's house had 2 circs - one for each zone. That had another little box to control the second circ, I believe .. because my boiler doesn't have that second box.



kstills wrote:What do you wire your primary to?

Primary what? :confused:

Oil burner to B terminals, Circ to C terminals, thermostat to TT terminals, and DHW tank to ZC terminal.


Primary loop circulator.

I don't have zone valves, either, I have circulators on each zone plus a primary. I have a zone control box for the xone circulators that was added to the boiler to reduce the wiring into the L7224.

And I don't recall what was placed where wrt to the wiring once that went in, but there are some...ah....issues atm which this might be addressing.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:15 pm

Ahh 10-4. Mine is not set up that way. Well, actually it is but that wasn't the intent. Right now I have the stoker's circ running 24/7 with the wires stuffed into an extension cord. Don't try this at home ... :lol:

Another small project I need to get to. Going to wire that circ to a light switch, so I can turn it off in the off-season.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:24 pm

Okay i think i have the wiring off the L7224 for all my connections. Someone set me straight.
T.T.-is controlling my aquastat for my dumpzone and also has one thermostat connected to it.

zr is empty
L1 has two black wires the stoker and also the 3 pump which is run through a relay
L2 has two white wires the stoker and also the 3 pump which is run through a relay
C2 has white wire to pump 1
B2 is empty
C1 has balck to pump 1
B1 has ground
zc is empty

pump 2 is run through a relay

DOES ANY OF THIS MAKE SENSE?
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:44 pm

That makes no sense at all.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:54 pm

SMITTY wrote:Ahh 10-4. Mine is not set up that way. Well, actually it is but that wasn't the intent. Right now I have the stoker's circ running 24/7 with the wires stuffed into an extension cord. Don't try this at home ... :lol:

Another small project I need to get to. Going to wire that circ to a light switch, so I can turn it off in the off-season.

All you need is a Honeywell relay to run the circulator from the thermostat. Maybe this one.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-R845 ... 4AodiXEA9Q
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: GoodProphets On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:35 pm

Whoa nelly.

I cannot believe that this thread has gone this far.
I read it in the beginning, but only when thought of the storage tanks were for DHW for faucet.


First, my house is comparable.
4000 sq ft with an attic (third floor) 1200 approx sq ft that is not insulated
Pretty much whole house is not insulated, some parts have blue foam sheets put on the siding,
and then vinyl siding over top, but that is just "some parts"
Next i have an addition 600+sqft with mostly windows, and then 600 MBR on top of that, mostly windows.

Drafty windows, doors, basement, attic, and any other place you can think of.

I have an EFM 520, so I am in the same boat.
Just judging by the pic, I think your house is a bit bigger, but you say somewhat insulated.

our heat loss should be similar.
Dead of winter I get an ash bin about 12 hours or so.
I went through 10 ton last winter, 1.5-2 ton summer DHW

NOW, my stoker comes on as soon as the thermostats call for heat.
I have two zones, one 120+ ft cast iron baseboard, one 10 or so standups.

I will say this, when there is a heat call, that stoker needs to come on.
When there is a heat call, that water in the radiators is cold or just about.
There is some shock, but the sooner that stoker comes on, the better.

The stoker comes on and is fire puffing when it needs to.
IT WILL HIT THE LL when there is a call for heat. IT WILL
So it needs to start stoking right away.

In the dead of winter with it calling for heat and stoking away, then it runs pretty good (and eats coal pretty good)
But it is the average of what I have always heard.
My coal cost is about 30-40% of what oil was.
Plus I keep TT set higher.

15 ton may seem high, but you may want to check out what is above you.
Is your attic insulated?
You could have more heat loss than you think.

If you want 24/7 circ, that may help you out, but think about what the house previous consumed.
Convert it to coal to see if the numbers match up.

I am not aware of in floor radiant heat or consumption of coal from it,
but I have heard that it has a huge load.. something to consider, if you do not have that hooked up yet.

If any and all heat calls will bring it to the LL, then you need it set like you have it.
Other wise it will just take longer to satisfy the TT.
HOWEVER, with my drafty house, I def need it this way.
You mentioned that a TT satisfy will stay warm for a while...but you never
mentioned if every heat call brings it to the LL.

Hope some of this helps, sorry if it doesnt.

Rob
GoodProphets
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Anthra Rice
Other Heating: 3 Fireplaces

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:00 pm

Yes that information helps a lot. I now see that the coal consumption is higher than normal, but the house is insulated very well, with the exception of the older windows (which are double pane andersons, just old) The walls are all R13 and attics all have R21 in them.

No the LL is not met on every heat call. That's what sparked my original concern about the aquastat not being wired correctly. So if anyone could point me in the correct direction it's appreciated.
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:13 pm

CoalBurner5 wrote:Okay i think i have the wiring off the L7224 for all my connections. Someone set me straight.
T.T.-is controlling my aquastat for my dumpzone and also has one thermostat connected to it.

zr is empty
L1 has two black wires the stoker and also the 3 pump which is run through a relay
L2 has two white wires the stoker and also the 3 pump which is run through a relay
C2 has white wire to pump 1
B2 is empty
C1 has balck to pump 1
B1 has ground
zc is empty

pump 2 is run through a relay

DOES ANY OF THIS MAKE SENSE?


Something isn't adding up. :?
Where does the hold-fire timer wire in?
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:15 pm

I wired my VF3000 to run as soon as most of my zones called. I had an undersized boiler in an extremely cold place, good insulation. I wanted that sucker to start the process as soon as possible to ramp up to full production. Who cares if you burn a little more coal? Actually, I don't think you do because everything works better when the water stays hot.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: GoodProphets On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:28 pm

Glad it could help somewhat.

You say that the LL does not hit when there is a call for heat?

Do you ever look at the boiler temp when there is a call?

What my house does is:

Call for heat.
Circ comes on/stoker comes on.
Circs for a couple mins then LL hit, stoker keep chooglin.
Hits LL temp and circ comes on again.
Hits LL and on and on.
This is just to satisfy one zone. it could take 20-30 min or if cold and windy, it could run constant.

Are you saying that when a zone calls for heat, the TT is satisfied without the circ shutting off
and the boiler only drops 10 or 20 degrees?
I can see that happening in the dead of winter, but the boiler return is getting hit
with cold or very cool water if it didnt call for heat for a few hours or days (days in this warm weather we are having now)

My LL is hit multiple times to satisfy TT
This I thought was normal, even with the bypass loop open.

It might be a bit different with no insulation in my walls, as the walls are cold etc.

I think our sq ft is about the same, but you must have less heat loss.

So I am thinking something is wrong here,
A few things, but not sure what it is.
I did read your other thread, and maybe it is bad coal.
Maybe it is too much draft, maybe it is heat loss that you do not know about.
Maybe you could try the 24/7 circ just to see? (I just dont know how that would help with consumption)
As Sting or McG mentioned, there is only 3 things.
So it has to be lost somewhere or bad coal.
Is there a rad leak somewhere?

Maybe find another supplier to test

How much are you paying, and btw what you doing with your ashes, lol?
GoodProphets
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Anthra Rice
Other Heating: 3 Fireplaces

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: kstills On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:52 pm

One thing I've done with my high mass system is set my thermostat for a 0.5 degree diff for calling for heat (might be 1 degree, I have to check).

That way, the rads in my downstairs zone never actually get cold. There is always a call coming on to keep warmish water going through them.

The upstairs zone, on the other hand.... :shock:
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: storage tanks

PostBy: wilder11354 On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:31 pm

CoalBurner5 wrote:My concern was to store water for the heating system.

I have my current temps set at 150 low limit with a 10 differential and high limit at 170 with a 10 differential. As of right now my boiler maintains a 140-150ish temp and every single time that there is a heat call from the thermostat, it triggers the ciruculator to run AND the stoker.

So i guess what i'm asking is does it make sense that the stoker runs everytime that the circulator kicks on? in my mind i'm thinking that the stoker should only stoke when the temp drops below the low limit and on the timer that i have set to run 2 mins every half hour to prevent outfires. Just seems like it runs way to much and i'm losing heat up the chimney.


If your heating baseboards or radiators, first thing i notice is the boiler temp is kinda low. baseboards are usually rated at 180* boiler water for best performance(btu output.) i would star there, bump up to 180* normal temp, high limit at 200*>210* for ovrrfire dump zone..

If cast radiators, lower temps are good if its a slow steady circulation in system.
wilder11354
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF260
Coal Size/Type: nut or pea, anthracite
Other Heating: crown oil boiler, backup.if needed