ups units

ups units

PostBy: ginski On: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:21 pm

how many of you folks are using a UPS to power/protect your stokers in case of a power outage/brownout/spike to protect the elecronics, and to keep it running long enough to hook up your inverter/generator?

i just purchased a cyberpower 600VA to replace a very old APC unit with a burnt circuit board, and it gives me a comfortable 30 minute buffer on my mag to hook up the inverter & batteries till the grid returns.

tom
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ginski
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: magnum stoker

Re: ups units

PostBy: av8r On: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:24 pm

I have an old APC SmartUPS 1400 that fills in when needed. I've added a pigtail to allow connecting a deep cycle marine battery for extended runtime. I used it once so far for about 4 hours. If you can believe the LEDs on the display, I still had 70% capacity left.

I'm now on a search for a either a Honda EU2000 or Yamaha 2400 inverter generator. I would like one for our camper and around the house so this makes the cost a little easier to swallow. These should allow run times of 15 hours on 1.5 gallons of fuel.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: ups units

PostBy: ginski On: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:39 pm

with no load----yes?
i've read these can last 8 hrs. with 1/4 load on 1-1/2 gals.----am i wrong or is this thing running on stardust (haha)?
ginski
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: magnum stoker

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Re: ups units

PostBy: av8r On: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:38 pm

ginski wrote:with no load----yes?
i've read these can last 8 hrs. with 1/4 load on 1-1/2 gals.----am i wrong or is this thing running on stardust (haha)?

The load on the generator would be very minimal so it should just idle along. I'd probably get a little 700 watter for the stove and a 2400 for the camper so I can run the AC if we're dry camping. The 700 watt inverter unit should run many, many hours at idle.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: ups units

PostBy: sandman On: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:04 pm

av8r wrote:
ginski wrote:with no load----yes?
i've read these can last 8 hrs. with 1/4 load on 1-1/2 gals.----am i wrong or is this thing running on stardust (haha)?

The load on the generator would be very minimal so it should just idle along. I'd probably get a little 700 watter for the stove and a 2400 for the camper so I can run the AC if we're dry camping. The 700 watt inverter unit should run many, many hours at idle.



the Honda EU2000 is a great inverter/gen. a friend uses one for about 4 hrs every night 7 days a week 365 days a year.

i think he's burning a little more than a gallon a night. his saving in fuel over his old gen will pay for the gen in 6 months

i dont think one will run your campers ac. i think you need two with the cable that connects them.

all cheap inverters s u c k only by sine wave inverters!

as too hove long you can run it comes down to how big of a battery bank you have and how many amps x hrs your running it.

you will be surprised as too how fast your inverter will drain your bank.

you need a meter that tracks amp hrs (ah) removed and put back in to truly understand your batteries state of charge or discharge.
sandman
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: VF3000, mark III sf150&250

Re: ups units

PostBy: ginski On: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:37 pm

i can't imagine a gasoline engine running for that long on 1.5 gals. of fuel, but there's more things i haven't heard of than i've heard of..haha, so i'll have to check this out av8r.

thanks for the info...i never heard of an inverter generator.

tom
ginski
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: magnum stoker

Re: ups units

PostBy: av8r On: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:51 pm

sandman wrote:
av8r wrote:
ginski wrote:with no load----yes?
i've read these can last 8 hrs. with 1/4 load on 1-1/2 gals.----am i wrong or is this thing running on stardust (haha)?

The load on the generator would be very minimal so it should just idle along. I'd probably get a little 700 watter for the stove and a 2400 for the camper so I can run the AC if we're dry camping. The 700 watt inverter unit should run many, many hours at idle.



the Honda EU2000 is a great inverter/gen. a friend uses one for about 4 hrs every night 7 days a week 365 days a year.

i think he's burning a little more than a gallon a night. his saving in fuel over his old gen will pay for the gen in 6 months

i dont think one will run your campers ac. i think you need two with the cable that connects them.

all cheap inverters s u c k only by sine wave inverters!

as too hove long you can run it comes down to how big of a battery bank you have and how many amps x hrs your running it.

you will be surprised as too how fast your inverter will drain your bank.

you need a meter that tracks amp hrs (ah) removed and put back in to truly understand your batteries state of charge or discharge.


Ya, the Eu2000 won't start a camper AC unit, but it would run it once started. The Yamaha 2400 has a surge feature that will start a 13,500 BTU camper AC unit. It's very popular with RVers for that reason.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: ups units

PostBy: RiceBurner On: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:07 am

I've been looking at UPS units myself. How long can I expect a regular UPS to run my Magnum Stoker? I've seen the inverter/deep cycle marine battery setups but my stoker is in our family room and I really don't want a setup like that in there. Can I get a couple of hours out of any of the regular UPS units? :?:
RiceBurner
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum Stoker

Re: ups units

PostBy: Matthaus On: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:42 am

Welcome to the forum RiceBurner, this question has simple answers and complex answers. One simple answer is probably no, the average "normal" UPS might have say 500W capacity with 20 minutes or so at max power output. Your stoker will be using around 150W to 280W depending on where it is in the cycle and whether the Tstat is calling for heat.

You need to look at the specs for whatever UPS you are considering and remember Watts = Amps times Volts, my Harman is run by a Coal-Trol so my power usage is totally different from yours. Depending on load (damp coal, oversize coal etc) the stoker motor needs around 1 amp when it is running (120W) the convection blower needs around .8 Amps (96W), the combustion blower needs around .6 amps (72W), and the power supply that runs the Tstat relay and timers uses a small amount. This is where the answers start to get more complicated, it depends on how much these motors are running to determine the length of time your unit will run on a given UPS. Av8r posted some info on the APC 1400W UPS that can be wired to extra batteries. You could run a 120V outlet to the stove and put the UPS and associated extra batteries in the basement or other remote location (now the answer gets even more complex :) )

In the final analysis the simple answer is to install a small UPS if you already have one and run some experiments and see how long it runs. If your experience with power outages in your area show that power will not be out for long usually, then you might have an easy solution. If not then you need to look at other more complex solutions. If you do a search on UPS in the forum you will find many posts on this topic.

Best wishes for finding an easy answer, keep us posted. :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: ups units

PostBy: ginski On: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:16 pm

hi riceburner,

i recently bought a cyberpower 585va ups with the digital display for my mag at staples. main & combustion plugs are on battery backup side, distribution blower on surge side. i get 61 minutes runtime (if display is accurate) when not feeding & 32 minute readout when feed motor turns on. this is more than enough time to get the inverter ready if the outage is one that will last.

bring in 3 used printer cartridges to staples and the cost of the inverter is $30.

with a ups you're actually depending on one inverter until you can get the other one hooked up. our power outages in the poconos use to last several hours years ago, but for some reason doesn't happen anymore.

tom
ginski
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: magnum stoker

Re: ups units

PostBy: RiceBurner On: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:00 pm

Thanks for your responses guys, this tells me what I need to know. I'll look into my options locally and see what I can come up with.

Outages don't last long here but I like to be prepared for a longer outage if it happens.
RiceBurner
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum Stoker

Re: ups units

PostBy: pret On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:09 pm

Hi fellas,

I just got an old APC 1000 from my dad who replaced this unit with another. It's rated at just below 700 watts at max output. The batteries are dead, so I planned on hooking up a couple of marine deep cell batteries to the unit for back up to an AHS 130. Am I able to up the current output without frying the internal inverter? I'm looking at providing power to two Taco 007 circulators and the motors on the AHS to run the stoker. I can't imagine the load of the stoker being more than 3 amps, and the circulators maybe 2 a piece... so am I able to up the load on the inverter???

pret
pret
 

Re: ups units

PostBy: sandman On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:04 pm

pret wrote:Hi fellas,

I just got an old APC 1000 from my dad who replaced this unit with another. It's rated at just below 700 watts at max output. The batteries are dead, so I planned on hooking up a couple of marine deep cell batteries to the unit for back up to an AHS 130. Am I able to up the current output without frying the internal inverter? I'm looking at providing power to two Taco 007 circulators and the motors on the AHS to run the stoker. I can't imagine the load of the stoker being more than 3 amps, and the circulators maybe 2 a piece... so am I able to up the load on the inverter???

pret



i did something like this about 10 years ago. i ended up disconnecting the charging circuit (i didn't trust it with bigger batt capacity) i used a fully auto batt charger to keep the batteries charged and it worked well.

later i upgraded and put the whole house on a ups (a 4k inverter with a 1000ah battery bank @ 24v)

a 7a load at 120v = close to 70a at 12v and 35a at 24v. you'd need a couple of 8d's for batteries if you wanted to run it for more that an hr or so.

get a killawatt meter (do a search you can find them for under $30) it will tell you what your boiler and or anything under it's rated wattage is using.

as i recall my harman boiler is just under 200w with one circulator running and a small fan to keep the stoker motor cool.

200w/ 120v = 1.67a that would be around 16-18a @ 12v and 8-9a @ 24v
sandman
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: VF3000, mark III sf150&250

Re: ups units

PostBy: beatle78 On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:41 pm

[deleted post] 2 other people already posted a good answer about Marine batteries....
beatle78
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker KA-4

Re: ups units

PostBy: WNY On: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:56 pm

I have a 1000W UPS on my Hyfire, with a couple of car batterys sitting next to them, I measured the voltage on the internal batterys and they are 12V in series, so it's 24v output to the UPS.

It helped, we lost power for a while, not sure (probably 20-30 mins), we weren't home, but the keystoker flamed out and the hyfire was running fine when we got home. Between the UPS and natural draft chimney, it made it thru.!! :)
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

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