Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: oliver power On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:25 pm

I don't know ANYTHING about the Leisure Line boilers, other than, they are supposed to be good. I do have the Key Stoker Kaa-2, which I believe is 24 gallon capacity. I'm very happy with the Kaa-2. It does a GREAT job of heating my place. That being said, If the Kaa-2 had about 6 gallons more capacity, It would shine that much more than it already does. I think that's why KEY STOKER re-introduced the KA-4. My point is; I couldn't imagine having a coal fired boiler with only 12 gallons capacity. Oliver
Last edited by oliver power on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: oilman On: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:36 pm

kstills wrote:
Rob R. wrote:
McGiever wrote:Priority for the indirect certainly helps a smaller boiler produce adequate DHW....but it isn't much fun when a family of 4-5 takes showers on a breezy subzero morning. I went through this in my dad's house, the 3 section oil boiler would run non-stop serving btu's to the indirect, and the house would cool...eventually some preset time limit in the control would be reached, and it would allow the other zones to run...which by then were cold and would reduce the boiler temperature enough to impact DHW production. It only happened on really cold mornings when there was a lot of DHW being used, but I figured it was worth mentioning. The good news is that the issue has not reoccured in the last three years...ever since I installed a boiler with enough capacity.

I don't really prefer one of the boilers (LL110 or K4) over the other, but I do think you need to be thorough and explain the size & configuration of your home/heating system to the dealer/installer. Make sure they know what the load is, and ask if they guarantee a warm house and hot showers in January.


I've been giving this some thought myself, since the family has expanded since I installed the WL 110. Based on another thread, I'll be putting in a blending valve, run the indirect up to 150 and figure that will cure all my DHW and cold temperature potential problems.


I was going to mention that, the mixing valve/150 degree set-up works wonders on any water heater.
oilman
 

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: Wiz On: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:02 am

Tomorrow is Friday, what's it going to be?
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:58 pm

Ditto, which did you order? :)
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:28 pm

Where do you live? Which unit would could you get parts for more easily? I would, personally, like a bigger reserve found in the KA-4. I'd rather be slightly oversized than at all undersized. I can comment that I do REALLY like my KA-6. Only stoker I've ever know, personally, however.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: Matthaus On: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:06 pm

One other factor to remember when designing a system is gravity flow. Most modern installations employ a flow check to prevent the water from taking it's natural path as it's heated and thus causing the boiler to fire. We have customers who have saved the expense of changing their plumbing over to primary secondary by simply allowing gravity flow and thus employing the capacity of the loop (s) as a storage tank.
Of course as has already been stated the design of the system, physical conditions and other factors need to be considered and taken into account by a qualified HVAC professional before this method is employed, or at the very least there needs to be a slight tolerance for a science project atmosphere while certain details are worked out.
One other thing to remember when the full loop has cooled to say 125* and is going to return to the boiler, if a boiler has more capacity it now has that extra capacity to heat as well when the big amount of cool water returns and dilutes the boiler. With only 12 gallons and most of it in contact with the fire, a LL WL 110 can recover faster than higher volume boilers designed using the tried and true method of mass storage.
One other thought, we tested the boiler in the UL lab using a total loss heat exchanger with 50 degree well water entering one side. The delta T was 110* and yet the boiler could still crank out 190* water at certain flow rates, so to limit flow to the loop with the large capacity can also control the availability of high boiler temp to ensure plenty of DHW production.
Then again a person can always do things the way they have always been done and get predictable results while never stretching the envelope. The mad professor in me always wants to see what can be accomplished.
I do not post this to convince anyone of anything, only to provide food for thought. :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:35 pm

My 2 cents since I have run a K4 (older version). An AA130 and now my WL110. All 3 do a great job. I honestly think my HW is the same between my old K4 and the WL 110. I have a 6yr old and my wife in my house both take long showers. I also have a habit of getting my air fuel ratio wrong in the hopper, too much air at times. :D My best solution since I try to keep on the good side of my girls. I feed the cold side of my electric DHW heater. So no matter what at the very least they have a hot shower. When I did not run my coal boiler for a short time this summer my electric bill went up more than $40. But I was so busy it was not a big deal. Uninterrupted HW and 2 happy girls.

If momma's happy everyone is happy. :)
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: oliver power On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:46 pm

That must be one tough decision. We are at the edge of our seats, waiting for the final results. Both manufacturer's would be proud to see there product head to head, and neither one a push over. Oliver
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:39 am

Its almost Sun. already!!! Which one!!!! :shock:

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:13 am

I hope he didn't buy cord wood instead! Lol!
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:45 am

Flyer5 wrote:My 2 cents since I have run a K4 (older version). An AA130 and now my WL110. All 3 do a great job. I honestly think my HW is the same between my old K4 and the WL 110. I have a 6yr old and my wife in my house both take long showers. I also have a habit of getting my air fuel ratio wrong in the hopper, too much air at times. :D My best solution since I try to keep on the good side of my girls. I feed the cold side of my electric DHW heater. So no matter what at the very least they have a hot shower. When I did not run my coal boiler for a short time this summer my electric bill went up more than $40. But I was so busy it was not a big deal. Uninterrupted HW and 2 happy girls.

If momma's happy everyone is happy. :)


Everyone knows electric water heaters are not an economical way to make hot water. But they are a great way to store hot water and act as a buffer between water coils in a hydronic system and the user at the faucet. I do the same thing, feed the output from the coil into the cold side of a 50 gallon water heater. The electric elements only come on to keep the water at temperature. The water heater never sees 50 degree well water.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: Wiz On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:12 am

Looks like we'll never know the outcome.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: lephturn On: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:54 pm

decision will be a WL110 BUTTTTTTT....Long story short. Got a call from work that Thur nite. Laid off.. 1st time in 17.5 years... Went into hysterical saving mode and did not buy on Fri because I have a coal stoker stove system that does work just not at the comfort levels I would prefer. I just heard that 2nd week of Feb I should be back and if so then the money I have still saved and set aside for my LL WL110 will be spent. Until then I am keeping that extra 4k buffer and savings in the bank. More to come on my small setback
Jason
lephturn
 
Stove/Furnace Make: still deciding

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:36 am

Jason,

Sorry to hear about the lay-off, life has a way of altering course in the blink of an eye,

Keep us posted, we are here to help, not just on boilers.
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.

Re: Keystoker KA-4 or LL wl110 ?? Buying Friday

PostBy: lephturn On: Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:55 pm

Thanks. I am waiting to hear Thur from them if can come beck even sooner. Hopefully this will not be a yearly normal thing from here forward. The first day back will be my order date and can not wait for both. You all are a great group of guys here. Thanks for the support
lephturn
 
Stove/Furnace Make: still deciding

Visit Lehigh Anthracite