Monitoring DSM 1400 W/ Dwyer Manometer

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 1:37 pm

Yes, but you said you blocked off the secondaries and it did not help. How are you judging? By stack temp?

 
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 2:00 pm

by the fact that the mano. showed no slowing or increase of draft, neither did the baro.

the force and volume of the draft just moved over to fully up thru the fire bed.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 2:39 pm

If this was to establish that 36 hour burn then I understand. Otherwise not.

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 3:04 pm

King Coal, I'm not convinced that closing the secondary air forces the primary to take more since there is no change in pressure on the manometer. Seems like I tested that once before by measuring pressure at the primary while opening and closing the secondary. I'll try it again though. I know it seemed that way when you saw bigger flames over the coal bed, but I believe there is another conclusion for that.


 
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 4:27 pm

francob,

that's on me, I apologize.

i should have started a new thread or commented in others instead of highjacking the subject of this one with comments about dampers, 36 hr. burns, dampers again and secondary air functions.

Lightning,

if I may, lets look at this more closely. the secondary outlets inside the firebox run along the sill of the load door at the very front of the firebox, the flue is at the far rear of the fire box and higher than the secondary outlets. so, it would seem the flue is pulling everything it can thru the firebed and what ever else it has the remaining force to in thru the secondaries.

if then we close the secondaries completely and the whole firebed flares considerably more than it was, how can it be that the reason isn't that the flue is now breathing exclusively thru the firebed ?

just asking, if there's another explanation please continue.

 
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Post by franco b » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 4:34 pm

Do those secondaries have as their source part of the primary air below the coal bed or outside air completely?

 
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 6:01 pm

true segregated pre heated secondaries.

there is a box channel running the width of the front of the stove that forms the top of the firebox sill and keeps stuff from getting behind the front fire bricks.

this channel is open out the sides of the stove at both ends and has 9 outlet holes in the top spaced evenly across the width of the glass in the door. there is no other openings to the channel anywhere, other than the 9 outlets of course.

 
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 6:32 pm

I tried it again today. I took my mano probe and placed it in the primary air feed a couple inches while my secondary air was 80% open.. Reading to the best of my ability it was fluctuating -.0300 to -.0325 then I closed the secondary air feed completely. I could not see to the best of my scrutiny, any change in the mano reading. Pressure would dictate air volume coming in. This concludes to me there is not any more air coming in the primary when the secondary is closed.

I believe there is another explanation for seeing bigger flames when you blocked your secondary air off.

1 It's possible the secondary air has a washing effect as it blankets the top of the coal bed.

2 If my memory serves me right, I read that when carbon burns to make CO2, the flame is clear. But when carbon is starving and the result is some Co we see a flame. So it stands to reason that when the secondary was open, there was better combustion with a clear flame. When the secondary was closed, the flame revealed itself with a colored CO flame.

I believe Stan offered this in another thread,
Flame colors,
Carbon to Co clear to white. Clear when all Oxygen needs are met.
CO to CO2 Blue to yellow. Blue when all oxygen needs are met.

Cool stuff lol. 8-)
Last edited by Lightning on Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 6:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.


 
KingCoal
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 6:33 pm

when I walked in tonight the stove was showing 400* stove top, mano. reading .04 steady very little blue activity on the top of a 24 hr. old unattended fire, and I decided to block the secondaries to see if my original observation was accurate.

yes, after 45 mins. of blocked secondaries the mano. has never altered from showing .04, the stove top is still 400* and the blues have doubled in location, area and strength. at other times, when the secondaries are open, the blues will have no specific directional bias. while the secondaries are blocked the blues go nearly straight up no matter where they originate on the firebed with just their tips fluttering toward the back of firebox.

curious and curiouser my friends. I find it amazing to be finding out what all goes on and is needed to have or know to burn coal correctly after 25 yrs. of following the established cycle of what worked ( after a fashion ) with my last stove and just kept doing it. LOL

 
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Post by franco b » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 6:44 pm

I think we need a CO tester and a tester for CO2 would not hurt either. The relationship between the two, together with stack temp would determine excess air and efficiency.

 
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Post by KingCoal » Thu. Nov. 14, 2013 7:00 pm

yeah, I have neither and am not likely to pursue it further as I have no real axe to grind about presence or absence of excess air relative to efficiencies.

i was only relating "when I do this" or "when I do that" I see this and that reaction in and of MY set up. as far as I can tell there is no NORM to achieve, just the observations of our seperate realities.

while i'll continue to watch this thread and respond to questions in it i'm pretty much moving on and will start a new thread in the morning about the out come of attempting a 36 hr. unattended burn at a constant 400* on a single near capacity charge of fuel.

hope to see you all there.

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