Using Same Flue for Oil & Coal

 
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auntievintage
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Post by auntievintage » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 8:57 am

ddahlgren wrote:If installing a coal furnace it begs the question why have 2 appliances in the first place doesn't it? What does the second hand fired stove bring to the party other than more work and more cost? If no power for whatever reason what is the failure mode of the stoker and can it be hand fired if the power is out for an extended amount of time?
The idea of a stoker furnace is in the early planning stage. Right now, I am just concerned with getting insurance so we can close on the house.
I likely will put a stoker furnace in next year... but as far has having 2 appliances, part of the reason is that it is a big, old house and most winters would be comfortable with just a furnace, but every few years we get extreme cold stretches. I recall a 10 day stretch about 5 years ago where the thermometer hit -15 to -26 actual temperature mid-day. We live on a large hill @ 500' elevation so the wind finds every nook & cranny to seep in at times like that. I can't imagine not having a supplemental source for those times.
For now, I guess I will just not hook up the coal stove as far as the insurance is concerned :?

 
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whistlenut
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Post by whistlenut » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 9:14 am

Silence is golden.........if you don't pick up that big flat rock, perhaps the rattlesnake won't bite you. Or as smitty would say STFU !!!!!!!!!!!!! I recall MANY old foundations and pictures of homes, hotels, entire blocks burned flat....not one involved coal. Wood and sometimes gas, never coal. Do not forget that you may be a much better authority than the insurance company, so have your facts together, and be prepared to inform and educate. I get: "I did not know that" all the time. :shock: :idea:

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 9:57 am

In all due respect I think the NFPA is the last word on the subject no matter if correct or logical. I never forget I am dealing with suits that know little but quote people who think they do.


 
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auntievintage
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Location: Etna, ME
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood 116
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Nut
Other Heating: Oil forced luke-warm air

Post by auntievintage » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 12:39 pm

Good news update:
Just got the binder on the insurance policy I needed. I ended up going through Progressive (Ugh! Which goes against my grain) who uses Homesite Homeowner's Insurance as their underwriters. They asked only the following as far as the heating is concerned: #1- What is the main heatsource? (Oil forced air) and #2- is there a wood or coal burning stove? (yes) ...unlike all of the other insurance agents, no additional questions were asked and no mention of multiple appliances on the same flue.
Done!

 
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Post by orrsmills » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 1:24 pm

Cyber36 wrote:It's legal here in NY also. Two appliances is the max. allowed.....
Is this in fact true that it's legal in NY??? I was thinking of putting a coal stove in my basement.

 
ddahlgren
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Post by ddahlgren » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 1:34 pm

auntievintage wrote:Good news update:
Just got the binder on the insurance policy I needed. I ended up going through Progressive (Ugh! Which goes against my grain) who uses Homesite Homeowner's Insurance as their underwriters. They asked only the following as far as the heating is concerned: #1- What is the main heatsource? (Oil forced air) and #2- is there a wood or coal burning stove? (yes) ...unlike all of the other insurance agents, no additional questions were asked and no mention of multiple appliances on the same flue.
Done!
I fail to see how that puts you in the clear if a loss when you do not follow NFPA regs. I would never lose track that an insurance company has basically 3 sections on the business side and they all have their own separate goals.
Sales to bring in business and keep existing business
Underwriting to make sure the risk is inline with their level of comfort as far as risk goes.
Claims to pay out if there is a loss.

It does not matter one bit what sales says about something being ok as if a loss you will not be talking to them.

This is all my opinion and obviously do what you are comfortable with but just playing devils advocate is all.


 
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jpete
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Post by jpete » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 7:24 pm

ddahlgren wrote:In all due respect I think the NFPA is the last word on the subject no matter if correct or logical. I never forget I am dealing with suits that know little but quote people who think they do.
The NFPA writes rules. They are not the only group who does.

The "authority having jurisdiction" is responsible for adopting and enforcing those rules. The AHJ is typically your town government. They are the ones doing the inspection so they have the final say.

For instance, the code says that an oil tank must be at least 5'(IIRC) from the oil fired appliance but some towns want up to 12'.

Most towns just adopt NFPA in it's entirety because it's easier than coming up with their own.

I've got the 2012 edition of NFPA 54 which is the "National Fuel Gas Code". There are other NFPA books. NFPA 58 are the rules for LP Gas. NFPA 70 is the Electrical code. NFPA 409 is for Airplane Hangers. There are codes for everything.

Just to go more in depth with definitions.

3.2.1 Approved. Acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction.
3.2.3 Code. A standard that is an extensive compilation of provisions covering broad subject matter or that is suitable for adoption into law independently of other codes and standards.

1.5 Enforcement. This code shall be administered and enforced by the authority having jurisdiction designated by the governing authority.

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 7:43 pm

Just need to sell it to the insurance Co, when putting in a claim Jeff. :)

 
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Berlin
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Post by Berlin » Tue. Nov. 12, 2013 8:32 pm

ddahlgren wrote:
auntievintage wrote:Good news update:
Just got the binder on the insurance policy I needed. I ended up going through Progressive (Ugh! Which goes against my grain) who uses Homesite Homeowner's Insurance as their underwriters. They asked only the following as far as the heating is concerned: #1- What is the main heatsource? (Oil forced air) and #2- is there a wood or coal burning stove? (yes) ...unlike all of the other insurance agents, no additional questions were asked and no mention of multiple appliances on the same flue.
Done!
I fail to see how that puts you in the clear if a loss when you do not follow NFPA regs. I would never lose track that an insurance company has basically 3 sections on the business side and they all have their own separate goals.
Sales to bring in business and keep existing business
Underwriting to make sure the risk is inline with their level of comfort as far as risk goes.
Claims to pay out if there is a loss.

It does not matter one bit what sales says about something being ok as if a loss you will not be talking to them.

This is all my opinion and obviously do what you are comfortable with but just playing devils advocate is all.
because it's not fraud. insurance will cover almost any stupid thing you do whether it's lighting yourself on fire by dropping a cigarette in bed or clogging the toilet and flooding the home w/ water. In order to deny claim - it's fraud, or it's not covered in your policy.

If things had to constantly be brought up to current code to keep insurance, every property owner would go bankrupt.

Even if (hypothetically) a claim was denied because of current code, The cause of the loss would have to be the item that wasn't to code. So, not only would the house burn down, but the cause would have to be one or more of the appliances connected to one flue in noncompliance with current code.

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