Harman Elite Wing Question?

Post Reply
 
s.z.keck
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri. Nov. 15, 2013 5:23 pm

Post by s.z.keck » Fri. Nov. 15, 2013 5:35 pm

Hi, I am new to hand fired coal, but I recently privately bought a used Harman Elite insert. This unit did not have the side and top wings, just a blower. I called a dealer to get a quote on the wing prices, and it will be over $800... My question is, will the wings significantly impact performance, or is it more for aesthetics? I want to get good performance, but I also do not want to spend that much money if it is not very useful. Does anyone know how much practical use the wings have on this unit? Thanks!

 
User avatar
Hambden Bob
Member
Posts: 8536
Joined: Mon. Jan. 04, 2010 10:54 am
Location: Hambden Twp. Geauga County,Ohio
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Blower Model Coal Chubby 1982-Serial#0097
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni ! / Nut
Other Heating: Pro-Pain Forced Air

Post by Hambden Bob » Fri. Nov. 15, 2013 7:50 pm

I'm not familiar with that unit,but can you take a shot at having a sheet metal guy make them locally ? We've got a Wildman right here named Freddy,runs "Freddy's Coffee House" here on the forum. Couldn't hurt to PM him and ask. Probably would help to be able to furnish some dimensions.....Keep Diggin',cause $800 sure is steep. :o

 
User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 30293
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Location: Freetown,NY 13803
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Post by freetown fred » Fri. Nov. 15, 2013 7:54 pm

You got that right HB--$800.00 will buy a whole lot of custom work:)

 
User avatar
Carbon12
Member
Posts: 2226
Joined: Tue. Oct. 11, 2011 6:53 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Post by Carbon12 » Fri. Nov. 15, 2013 8:26 pm

http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/E ... Insert.pdf

Not sure if this answers the question. Seems fiberglass needs to be packed BEHIND the wings to ensure a good seal to provide good draft. Plus the side wings cover the convection blowers. Might be noisy without.


 
Demented
Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 7:47 pm

Post by Demented » Tue. Nov. 19, 2013 9:25 pm

If the stove is installed correctly and insulation is tightly packed in around the flue pipe, the missing side "wings" are a moot point. For the most part all they do is cover the fireplace opening. I put some rope insulation behind mine to help make a better seal. For what Harman is wanting for the surround, I'll be willing to bet that you can get a sheet metal shop to bend you up something for about half that price.

 
User avatar
dcrane
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 3128
Joined: Sun. Apr. 22, 2012 9:28 am
Location: Easton, Ma.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Post by dcrane » Wed. Nov. 20, 2013 4:58 am

Demented wrote:If the stove is installed correctly and insulation is tightly packed in around the flue pipe, the missing side "wings" are a moot point. For the most part all they do is cover the fireplace opening. I put some rope insulation behind mine to help make a better seal. For what Harman is wanting for the surround, I'll be willing to bet that you can get a sheet metal shop to bend you up something for about half that price.
agreed with above and well said^^^
lets put a stop to this abuse by Harmon... $800.00 is an 800% mark up because they make things in such quantities (they might let the dealer make $20.00 toothy ) ... so don't expect the dealer to be able to offer much help!

 
User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 30293
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Location: Freetown,NY 13803
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Post by freetown fred » Wed. Nov. 20, 2013 7:57 am

Tall Pines Farm has an offer on any Harman stove--$100.00 off plus 1 ton of coal per purchase--hmmm wonderful PR stuff--- ;) I'm pretty sure I have those facts right. Anybody ever deal with these people?????????????

 
User avatar
dcrane
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 3128
Joined: Sun. Apr. 22, 2012 9:28 am
Location: Easton, Ma.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Post by dcrane » Wed. Nov. 20, 2013 8:52 am

freetown fred wrote:Tall Pines Farm has an offer on any Harman stove--$100.00 off plus 1 ton of coal per purchase--hmmm wonderful PR stuff--- ;) I'm pretty sure I have those facts right. Anybody ever deal with these people?????????????
the $100 off is Harmons BS http://www.harmanstoves.com/Landing-Pages/Harman- ... 7AodgioAuw
the free ton of coal is a dealers way to bypass the hell Harman puts them through stockpiling stoves and not being able to sell them (Harmon will not allow discount prices or sales from dealers own brain cells without pulling that dealership)... ive seen several dealers resort to these "coupled" products in attempt to sell these overpriced stoves that they make the consumer pay in spades throughout its life cycle for spare parts to maintain it and keep it running.


 
s.z.keck
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri. Nov. 15, 2013 5:23 pm

Post by s.z.keck » Wed. Nov. 20, 2013 11:36 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will look for a metal worker with experience in stoves. That might be hard for me to find down here in South-central PA, but I will look. I did call Harman, and while they were polite, they were not very helpful. I have an old Elite that is only set up for one blower. I was hoping they could just sell me the wings without the two blowers the newer models take, and cut me a break on the cost. They said they can't split it up like that, you have to buy both blowers and blower boxes even if your model only uses one. That was disappointing. I can't believe a company can't just remove a blower that they don't even manufacture. Oh well... No one has an old Harman wing assembly sitting around that they want to sell, do they?

 
User avatar
dcrane
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 3128
Joined: Sun. Apr. 22, 2012 9:28 am
Location: Easton, Ma.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Post by dcrane » Thu. Nov. 21, 2013 6:36 am

s.z.keck wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will look for a metal worker with experience in stoves. That might be hard for me to find down here in South-central PA, but I will look. I did call Harman, and while they were polite, they were not very helpful. I have an old Elite that is only set up for one blower. I was hoping they could just sell me the wings without the two blowers the newer models take, and cut me a break on the cost. They said they can't split it up like that, you have to buy both blowers and blower boxes even if your model only uses one. That was disappointing. I can't believe a company can't just remove a blower that they don't even manufacture. Oh well... No one has an old Harman wing assembly sitting around that they want to sell, do they?
Its one of the many drawbacks to whats called a "Conglomerate", they do not have access to those pieces you want (they are made by the thousands by lil chinamen someplace in Mexico toothy ).. that was kinda a joke to bring a laugh. anyways... even if they did have access, trying to obtain a pricing structure through the layers of executives would be a whole other process altogether... so we have to be somewhat understanding of the differences between companies (im sure their are plusses & minuses to both) .... Example: Leisure Line would merely answer the phone, walk out back with a screw driver and grab the part you needed and ship it out that day knowing exactly what they paid for that part (they would not need to call mexico, get a translator to communicate, call china who would then call my Mr. Determan for approval of price (because you cannot talk to Mr. Determan, unless your 140' Yacht is moored next to his)... but on the bright side "usually" a large company like this can make up for those downfalls by offering prices that a company like Leisure Line cannot match (unless of course someone wants their cake & eat it to ;) ).

I hope this helps answer your question as to why Harman cannot simply remove a blower and try to service you fairly.

start here http://yellowpages.aol.com/metal-fabricators/pa/harrisburg/ (look for area near you and focus on "Sheet Metal Fabrication Shop") ... any of them can stamp out a fireplace insert if you have the dimensions drawn for them. If your chimney blocker is done in the chimney/smoke shelf you do not need to concern yourself to much about this fireplace blocker/insert being insulated, etc. if you go to a metal shop using a cnc you can ask them to punch louvers in it if you wish (this would give some aesthetics to flat metal, if you have a photo of what you want I could get a price up this way for it pretty easy.)

 
User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 30293
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Location: Freetown,NY 13803
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Post by freetown fred » Thu. Nov. 21, 2013 8:32 am

dc, I think everybody's got your feelings about Harman down pat--I mean really--lighten up--by the way---WHY did CRANE go out of business? just curious

 
User avatar
Carbon12
Member
Posts: 2226
Joined: Tue. Oct. 11, 2011 6:53 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Post by Carbon12 » Thu. Nov. 21, 2013 8:39 am

Interesting question. More importantly, why not go back into business?!!? Good design and quality stoves from everything I've read!

 
User avatar
dcrane
Verified Business Rep.
Posts: 3128
Joined: Sun. Apr. 22, 2012 9:28 am
Location: Easton, Ma.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Post by dcrane » Thu. Nov. 21, 2013 11:49 am

Carbon12 wrote:Interesting question. More importantly, why not go back into business?!!? Good design and quality stoves from everything I've read!
Crane... as well as 20 other coal stove companies went out of bussiness in the late eighties because of a few factors (economy, cheap oil, high overhead from oil crisis days)... it was also a time when stoker stoves became the "rage" (folks were not edjucated consumers in terms of pellets, electricity, fans, noise, parts, etc.)... they only viewed the "automatic" aspects with the tinsel & bells. Company's just comming into the bussiness then had low overhead (they were not sitting on 2,000 stoves in inventory, they had no $200,000 loan to pay, etc.)... VC had their own foundry (made manhole covers during the lean years). Im sure many other things factor in like simply preparation that Russo, Chubb, Crane, Etc. just did not see :(

In terms of making them again... it would be super easy had my father saved the casting molds like Larry Trainer did (he did not)... he closed the doors and never looked back (maybe its what he had to do to survive :( ). The 404 is the only model which has the features, look, size, flexability that would compeat well in which I do not see any other stove able to mimic on the market today (the problem is that the 404 requires many production casting molds in which someone would have to invest to have made). either way... It does require a certain personality, confidence, financial ability to make a leap like that which I just have :(

Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”