Venting Help

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: MudFlapLip On: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:44 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
MudFlapLip wrote:I drew in another register just outside the doorway of bedroom #1 in the newly attached photo. In theory, if I dropped a register there would it act as a source of heat similar to the stairwell concept? Would heat coming from the newly added register then "force" or cause the cool air to leave the room via the register I have already cut in under the window? I can see now how it will be difficult to move any volume of cold air from the room if I can't get a significant source to it. Maybe another option to use in conjunction with the ducting would be an inline fan? I'd think that would literally force the cold air from the room via the register. Any thoughts or ideas with that?


Yes, a vent without duct work extended down should draw from the warmer basement ceiling area. But how warm is the basement right below where you've drawn the register ? Heat/cold doesn't always go or do what you think. With a cold air return duct extended down near the basement floor the cold air being heavier sinks through the register and the extended duct restricts warm air from coming up through that register. By putting another register on the other side of that room, without extended duct, you'll get circulation by natural convection. But, only if there is a fairly good difference in air temps. While not as strong and quick as forced air, it will work.

However, one problem I see with your register location . If you want to heat #1 bed room, closing the door puts the heat on the wrong side of the door. :oops:

I think a study of the first floor and the basement ceiling, using an IR gun will give you a good idea of where the heat is going in the basement, what air temps you can get in those areas, and where you need to channel it upstairs.

Paul


That is a great explanation Paul thanks. Regarding the register outside the door, I was going with the concept that it is slightly warmer outside the bedroom so I could just keep the door open and let it get pulled into the room. I'm not sure if that would work either though considering your point of basement temps. It's obviously significantly warmer downstairs given stove location but I'm not sure if it's enough to make a difference for this particular scenario. I think the ducting to the floor that everyone has been saying is going to be a good start. An IR gun will definitely help locating another register should I see a need to install one. Thanks for your replies.
MudFlapLip
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Machine Stoves, DS1600WH Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: MudFlapLip On: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:48 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Similar to what your doing.
My kitchen is below my bed room. This house had originally used coal heat. In fact it was owned by the towns two coal dealers. In the kitchen ceiling/bed room floor there is a large register that let the heat from the original kitchen coal range upstairs. When I hooked up my coal range, I just uncapped where the old kitchen range was. The 6 inch thimble in the chimney was still there, so I piped my range to that. Keeps my bed room warm.

However, if I close the bed room door the room gets cold. There is no cold air return other than out into the upstairs hallway and down the back stair case.

We think of hot air as having a lot of force, but it's only force is from being pushed up by colder, heavier air. In other words, hot air does not rise - it's pushed !

With the bed room door closed and the cold air in the bed room being heavier, it wins the "register fight" with the hot air below. The cold air stops the hot air flow through that floor register and the cold air starts going down into the kitchen. Open the bed room door and that cold air moving down through the register immediately stops and hot air again starts coming up into the bed room.

Paul


You're absolutely right with this. I learned this in bedroom #2 (my daughters room). If the door is closed it is freezing in there and no air movement whatsoever within the register. There is a noticeable difference as soon as I open her door.
MudFlapLip
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Machine Stoves, DS1600WH Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: MudFlapLip On: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:57 pm

Lightning wrote:Have you considered some little fans in a couple of the ducts where you want to get more air flow to even out heat distribution?


Yeah I was actually thinking about something like that. I think if I ran the ducting down to the basement floor as Paul said accompanied with an inline fan of some type may solve it. So I guess in theory (and without cutting in anymore registers than the one I have in bedroom #1), that would pull warm air from the kitchen/living room area. Right or no?
MudFlapLip
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Machine Stoves, DS1600WH Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite


Re: Venting Help

PostBy: Lightning On: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:03 pm

Yes sir, That was my thinking. Just little circulation fans to help along the natural convection that's already in motion. It might be enough so you won't need to cut any more holes in the floor. :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: MudFlapLip On: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:23 pm

Good idea Lighting I think I may try that. I'm sure they make something directly related to duct work. If not I can probably find something similar. It may be better than just cutting in registers everywhere or "poking and hoping" as some call it :funny: toothy
MudFlapLip
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Machine Stoves, DS1600WH Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:31 pm

Curve ball time; has anyone given a thought to room to room vents? with or without fans. I understand they are not too appealing but they can be covered with a picture of your stove in the off season! :D
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: MudFlapLip On: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:41 pm

michaelanthony wrote:Curve ball time; has anyone given a thought to room to room vents? with or without fans. I understand they are not too appealing but they can be covered with a picture of your stove in the off season! :D


Haha that's a thought!!
MudFlapLip
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Machine Stoves, DS1600WH Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: mariohotshot On: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:33 pm

Sunny Boy wrote: With a cold air return duct extended down near the basement floor the cold air being heavier sinks through the register and the extended duct restricts warm air from coming up through that register. By putting another register on the other side of that room, without extended duct, you'll get circulation by natural convection.
Paul

This sounds like the best idea. You may also extend a duct on the additional register closer to the heat source.
mariohotshot
 
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 90

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:24 am

Gad zooks...Yesterday I typed up a response & it didn't get posted! Musta forgot the stamp. (What actually happens is someone else posted while I was typing & I didn't notice. Instead of posting it probably gave me a warning "you might want to read the latest post before you push submit". Arghhhh).

Most of what I tried to add has already been mentioned. Fans being one.

I think another vent outside of bedroom #1 will just short circuit the duct already in that room, unless that vent had duct work that went all the way to above the stove with a hood of some sort. If you were to add ductwork, then you'd have a true Hot air duct & it should go IN the room. I liked the idea someone had of making any new ducts go in the wall & down rather than in the floor.

One thing with room to room ducts is sound control. You lose privacy..... every radio, TV & conversation goes everywhere. I enjoyed the layout of your house as every bedroom is "sound separated" from the others. I'd strive to maintain that as much as possible.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: oliver power On: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:20 am

Sunny Boy wrote:Rather than cut up floors, if you have some non-load bearing walls, the cold air registers and ducts can be placed into the wall cavities with the registers mounted down low on the walls. And as already mentioned, then continue the ducting on down to near basement floor level.

Temps within a room can vary quiet a bit. The hand held Infar Red guns are better for walking around larger spaces and see exactly where the cold spots are so you'll know where placing the registers will do the most good. And they've come down in price. Plus, they will give continuous read outs as you scan it around.

Some auto mechanics use IR guns. Got any mechanic friends who will lend you one ?


Paul
Actually, stay a little higher off the floor (say 18 inches), above the cool air, and it will act as register for heat. Leave the cool air go down the floor registers. If you have hot air furnace, the cold air will follow the heat registers in floor, and back to basement. If the furnace kicks on, the process reverses. Furnace shuts off, it naturally reverses again. No more hole cutting in floor.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:45 am

mariohotshot wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote: With a cold air return duct extended down near the basement floor the cold air being heavier sinks through the register and the extended duct restricts warm air from coming up through that register. By putting another register on the other side of that room, without extended duct, you'll get circulation by natural convection.
Paul

This sounds like the best idea. You may also extend a duct on the additional register closer to the heat source.


You quoted me, but I was just adding to Michaelanthony's. Credit for a good idea should go to him.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:55 am

No worries folks, all the credit goes to the forum and those before me. Keep up the good chatter though, that is when you stumble across your solution! :)
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:03 am

Freddy wrote:Gad zooks... Musta forgot the stamp.......I liked the idea someone had of making any new ducts go in the wall & down rather than in the floor.

One thing with room to room ducts is sound control. You lose privacy..... every radio, TV & conversation goes everywhere. I enjoyed the layout of your house as every bedroom is "sound separated" from the others. I'd strive to maintain that as much as possible.


haha! the post office lost a couple $ billion $ last yr. wonder why! You are right Freddy, sound travels through the vents :oops: ...and the vents through the base of the wall plate is a good one.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:29 am

The only thing I can add here is you can find how the air moves with smoke. If you can take a cigarette, cigar, pipe, or incense stick if you don't smoke and watch where and how the smoke moves you can figure out where you need to improve the existing convection currents.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: Venting Help

PostBy: MudFlapLip On: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:35 am

michaelanthony wrote:No worries folks, all the credit goes to the forum and those before me. Keep up the good chatter though, that is when you stumble across your solution! :)



Yup exactly! I would've struggled big time with a lot of things had I not found this forum. Lots of info and decades of experience and advice from others.
MudFlapLip
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Machine Stoves, DS1600WH Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite