Cookin' with coal

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:41 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Yes,i was surprised by your toast info,image didn't work in my original reply, did i mention that i really like this thread???? so far this thread seems to be staying on track,is very down to earth informative,i enjoy that part very much as I'm not a college educated fancy type,I've been accused of being too practical & more interested in how useful is something,rather than how pretty/fancy/elaborate/upper class appealing something is. We will continue to follow both of your stove experiences,until we get our own,.... Too many things taking too many $$$$ rite now,stove purchase will have to wait .... :( however,our education will continue, thanks.


I have trouble getting those "view more smilies" to work also.

Same here about practicality. I collect some things that are antiques, but for me, there's no point owning it if it doesn't work - pretty, or not. My ex-wife tried to turn a pot belly stove I had, into a planter. I gave to a kid who worked for me rather than watch her turn it to rust everytime she tried to water the plants, . . just so it could "look pretty". :mad:

The girl friend feels the say way I do. That's why she bought the range for me. I was looking to buy a wood stove, but she grew up with a coal parlor stove and kitchen range and knew the worth of having coal, especially if the power goes out. That's why she bought it for me. That, and she also wanted to use it ! :D

Well, the time for you to get one will come. I see a lot of these kitchen ranges for sale, especially the Glenwood model C. Some are pretty low priced too. And Woodsman Supply has new-made triangular coal grates and frames for that model. In the meantime, there's a stove out there waiting patiently for the day when your ready. :)

A "toast" to cookin' with coal. :D

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:52 pm

Photog200 wrote:
windyhill4.2 wrote:Sunnyboy ,what can't be done with a coal cook stove[img]%20%20[/img]heat,cook,toast,hot water,bake, very interesting. Photog200 ,are you saying that your stove works better without your improvements, works better as designed????? I do love this thread.

Hey Windy,
The "improvements" I thought were improvements did not help the situation. I took the rope gaskets off today and there really was not a lot of difference. I still had to use the check damper to cool the wood fire down. (you can see the thermometer in the photo before I used the check damper) I have not tried coal yet but maybe tonight...feel like I am coming down with a cold so I might go take a nap. Hopefully, it will make enough of a difference to have been worth while.

know this thread is called cooking with coal and I cooked this meal with wood. (made pasta) I cleaned and polished the stove up today and wanted to post a photo showing how nice it looked.
Randy



Now, that's a great picture Randy. That's why I wanted to start this thread, but in 9 pages, it looks like you and I are the only ones who use these coal ranges like they were meant to be. :D

Doesn't mater what else I do to dampers, etc., I have to use the check damper with wood also. Even at that, a lot of heat goes up the chimney. That's why I stopped using wood in the shoulder months. Our nights get cold then even if the days warm up, but this stove still works fine on coal and I just damp it down during the day. It keeps drawing fine even when outdoor temps get up to 70 F. Much better to just keep it running on coal, than throwing wood in evenings to take the chill off and still go out in the night.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:46 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Photog200 wrote:
windyhill4.2 wrote:Sunnyboy ,what can't be done with a coal cook stove[img]%20%20[/img]heat,cook,toast,hot water,bake, very interesting. Photog200 ,are you saying that your stove works better without your improvements, works better as designed????? I do love this thread.

Hey Windy,
The "improvements" I thought were improvements did not help the situation. I took the rope gaskets off today and there really was not a lot of difference. I still had to use the check damper to cool the wood fire down. (you can see the thermometer in the photo before I used the check damper) I have not tried coal yet but maybe tonight...feel like I am coming down with a cold so I might go take a nap. Hopefully, it will make enough of a difference to have been worth while.

know this thread is called cooking with coal and I cooked this meal with wood. (made pasta) I cleaned and polished the stove up today and wanted to post a photo showing how nice it looked.
Randy



Now, that's a great picture Randy. That's why I wanted to start this thread, but in 9 pages, it looks like you and I are the only ones who use these coal ranges like they were meant to be. :D

Doesn't mater what else I do to dampers, etc., I have to use the check damper with wood also. Even at that, a lot of heat goes up the chimney. That's why I stopped using wood in the shoulder months. Our nights get cold then even if the days warm up, but this stove still works fine on coal and I just damp it down during the day. It keeps drawing fine even when outdoor temps get up to 70 F. Much better to just keep it running on coal, than throwing wood in evenings to take the chill off and still go out in the night.

Paul

Thanks Paul. It is just frustrating because I know it is because the stove is pulling air in through the top of the stove. There are no other seams that it can be pulling air in from...I sealed them all. I am just hoping when I try the coal that it works a little better now that all the seams are sealed. Thanksgiving, I could not get the oven to go over 300° with the air intakes wide open (with coal) :hammer: .
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

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Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:18 pm

Sunnyboy,i too have wondered about the other coal cook stoves ??? where are they ?? only 2 in use ?? don't get discouraged & give up on this thread,we enjoy all the useful ,practical info,all the different things you use your stove for,& one thing i forgot earlier , i believe Photog200 dries his laundry with hi stove,practical,practical............ :idea: & no electric!! :!:
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:29 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Sunnyboy,i too have wondered about the other coal cook stoves ??? where are they ?? only 2 in use ?? don't get discouraged & give up on this thread,we enjoy all the useful ,practical info,all the different things you use your stove for,& one thing i forgot earlier , i believe Photog200 dries his laundry with hi stove,practical,practical............ :idea: & no electric!! :!:

I do dry my laundry with my coal stove in the living room. I have a Kineo #15 baseburner that has been going since the end of September.
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:52 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Sunnyboy,i too have wondered about the other coal cook stoves ??? where are they ?? only 2 in use ?? don't get discouraged & give up on this thread,we enjoy all the useful ,practical info,all the different things you use your stove for,& one thing i forgot earlier , i believe Photog200 dries his laundry with hi stove,practical,practical............ :idea: & no electric!! :!:



Yup, same here. My pantry/laundry room door is just to the left of the stove - which just happens to be the hottest end of the stove. I have clothes lines rigged in there enough to hold a large washer load of laundry. Not only saves on the cost of LP and electric to run the dryer, it helps add moisture to the dry winter-time air, plus I have less of my clothes winding up in a lint trap. Coal can save in many ways. ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:26 pm

Randy,

One of the things I forgot to mention to you. The other day, when my stove was running hotter than usual (coal), I noticed the ash door top seemed warped outward. I checked the fit around the door with a feeler gauge and was surprised how big a gap (over .010 inch) it had all along the top edge, tapering down to less at the sides. Since the top is closer to the firebox I thought it was warping out from the stove running so hot. I opened the ash door and looking closer, I saw there was ash dust packed into the two corners of the recess the door drops into.
See pix below.

When I empty out ashes, I make sure to brush out that recess, but the brush wasn't getting into those inside corners very well. I had to use the point of my pocket knife to get in and scrape out the ash that had become packed in there. Now the door fits with only about .001-.002 gap.

If your Clarion is like my Glenwood, with a lift up and swing out ash door, see if there is ash in those corners that may be lifting and tilting the top of the ash door outward.

Paul
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Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:55 pm

Sunnyboy,it seems I keep mixing you two guys up :oops: the education continues,now i know that both of you dry laundry with your coal stoves,1-cook stove,1-heat stove,both drying laundry.All these useful ideas keep adding up to make a coal cook stove more useable/shorter payback :D :junmp:
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:09 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Randy,

One of the things I forgot to mention to you. The other day, when my stove was running hotter than usual (coal), I noticed the ash door top seemed warped outward. I checked the fit around the door with a feeler gauge and was surprised how big a gap (over .010 inch) it had all along the top edge, tapering down to less at the sides. Since the top is closer to the firebox I thought it was warping out from the stove running so hot. I opened the ash door and looking closer, I saw there was ash dust packed into the two corners of the recess the door drops into.
See pix below.

When I empty out ashes, I make sure to brush out that recess, but the brush wasn't getting into those inside corners very well. I had to use the point of my pocket knife to get in and scrape out the ash that had become packed in there. Now the door fits with only about .001-.002 gap.

If your Clarion is like my Glenwood, with a lift up and swing out ash door, see if there is ash in those corners that may be lifting and tilting the top of the ash door outward.

Paul

Thanks for that tip Paul but that area is spotless because yesterday I tore everything out of the firebox and washed it down with baking soda and water twice. I wanted to make sure there was no ash on the metal before I put the cement in the seams. HOWEVER, I just went out to the garage and got the box of kitchen matches out and started going over all of the seams on the top of the stove. There were several areas on the stove that was sucking air so bad that it almost extinguished the match. There is also a couple of places on the back of the stove pipe I have to plug up. Tomorrow when the stove cools I will try to plug where the issues are. I am sure this is what is causing the issues because if you have 8 places sucking in air, you might as well have the air dampers wide open. I came full circle back to where I originally thought the problem was but I will have to address it differently than with the rope gasket. The two photos show the trouble spots where it is sucking air.
Randy
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Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Lightning On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:16 pm

Hi photog200, I was reading thru the issues you are experiencing. I've never operated one of these stoves so I maybe off base lol. By the sounds of it, the air leaks might only be part of a bigger issue that's being overlooked.

I get the hunch that your draft pressure is variable. It burns good with wood but not quite what yer expecting with coal. Wood burning tends to create a strong draft compared to coal. A manometer might be a huge benefit in helping you diagnose the lack of heat when using coal.

I'm assuming the grates aren't a problem with ash build up since the fires are young.

Good luck! Keep us posted with your observations. :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:23 pm

You certainly can't put a sealer at all those edges as some of them are pieces you lift out at times,think I'm rite on that,are metal plate/rings,pitted on mating edges? is this problem unique to your Colonial ? is the Glenwood line better ? I went thru all the pictures to see if i could find all/any similarities/differences,did not see a firebox end view of the Colonial to compare. :( Sorry you are having all this trouble,seems we have had a big share of trouble here this year with almost everthing, David
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:25 pm

Lightning wrote:Hi photog200, I was reading thru the issues you are experiencing. I've never operated one of these stoves so I maybe off base lol. By the sounds of it, the air leaks might only be part of a bigger issue that's being overlooked.

I get the hunch that your draft pressure is variable. It burns good with wood but not quite what yer expecting with coal. Wood burning tends to create a strong draft compared to coal. A manometer might be a huge benefit in helping you diagnose the lack of heat when using coal.
Actually, it is not burning correctly with wood or coal. When burning wood, it is over fired because it is being fed with air being sucked in from the top of the stove. Even though I have the air intake dampers completely closed so I have to control that with the check damper. With coal, the air that is being sucked in from the top has the opposite problem, because it is taking air that should pass under the grates to operate it correctly, the coal fire does not get as hot as it should. (especially when in oven mode). I have to find a way to curb the air loss at these points I showed with the arrows in the photos. I have already made some progress by plugging some leaks at the stove pipe.

I'm assuming the grates aren't a problem with ash build up since the fires are young.
No problem with ash build up as it is a bran new fire today, the fire box was dismantled yesterday.

Good luck! Keep us posted with your observations. :D

Thank you so much for your post because your points are very valid. This has been two weeks of a lot of experimenting and learning and I thank everyone for your support and good pointers. I love this forum!
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:30 pm

Windy,
Yes, those range top plates are meant to be removable. As such they never seal 100%. With some careful grinding , filing, or lapping, the top plates can be made to seal better.

But that slight air leakage is also why you don't hear of puff backs, or needing secondary air with a coal range. The plates generally allow just enough air leakage to keep the blue ladies dancing nicely.

In extreme cases such as stoves that been repeatedly run too hot, or with the coal bed overfilled and too close up to the plates, then the plates will go out of shape. I've never seen a round plate warped - it's the plates that support the round plates that do the warping and sagging. What are called the "I's" and "T's" because of their shapes. They not only warp and/or sag, they also grow longer along the narrow middle length. Because their edges are usually beveled, that growth pushes them up out of their recesses adding to the air leak problem. When they get really out of shape, they leak exhaust gases out, which as you know, can be bad.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:35 pm

Photog200 wrote:
Lightning wrote:Hi photog200, I was reading thru the issues you are experiencing. I've never operated one of these stoves so I maybe off base lol. By the sounds of it, the air leaks might only be part of a bigger issue that's being overlooked.

I get the hunch that your draft pressure is variable. It burns good with wood but not quite what yer expecting with coal. Wood burning tends to create a strong draft compared to coal. A manometer might be a huge benefit in helping you diagnose the lack of heat when using coal.
Actually, it is not burning correctly with wood or coal. When burning wood, it is over fired because it is being fed with air being sucked in from the top of the stove. Even though I have the air intake dampers completely closed so I have to control that with the check damper. With coal, the air that is being sucked in from the top has the opposite problem, because it is taking air that should pass under the grates to operate it correctly, the coal fire does not get as hot as it should. (especially when in oven mode). I have to find a way to curb the air loss at these points I showed with the arrows in the photos. I have already made some progress by plugging some leaks at the stove pipe.

I'm assuming the grates aren't a problem with ash build up since the fires are young.
No problem with ash build up as it is a bran new fire today, the fire box was dismantled yesterday.

Good luck! Keep us posted with your observations. :D

Thank you so much for your post because your points are very valid. This has been two weeks of a lot of experimenting and learning and I thank everyone for your support and good pointers. I love this forum!


Randy,
For wood, I sure that's why the ranges have a built-in check damper. Some amount of air leakage from the top plates was considered normal. With wood the draft is much stronger than with coal. Plus, you have to run the wood hotter or you'll get a lot of creosote build up in the stove. Mine was thick with it when I got it. Took me hours with scrapers and wire brushes to clean it all out of the top and the oven flues.

However, even as leaky as mine is, I don't need the check damper when using coal. Have you also checked all around the firebox for cracks ?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:38 pm

Randy,
Have you tried covering the tips of those eyes and tees and all along the other edges with sand to see if that stops the run-away stove problem ?

How much check draft opening do you need with coal ?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Visit Hitzer Stoves