Cookin' With Coal

 
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dlj
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Post by dlj » Sat. May. 09, 2015 7:17 pm

Photog200 wrote: I have no doubts there is something in the formulas that each foundry used in their stove that made stoves last longer. I wish there was some records of the formulas used so would could find out what the difference was. I would suspect, those formulas were closely guarded secrets.

Randy
Prior to sometime in the early years of the 1900's - and still to some extent up through WWII - there was a master craftsman (I don't recall the technical name) in charge of running the smelting of iron ore into metal. How each one did it was a complete secret that each guarded carefully. The only way to figure some of their formulas out is to do extensive metallographic research, and even that has it's limits to know what they did.

Bog iron deposits varied from site to site depending upon what the local geology was. However, bog iron did tend to have very few impurities, especially missing were sulfur and phosphorous - two elements that have to be tightly controlled for metallurgical reasons. Silicon in cast irons is needed up to a certain point as it provides what is called fluidity. That is the ability for the molten metal to flow inside molds well, fill them and not leave cold shunts and other casting defects.

One of the famous bog iron sites is found in Japan, which I understand is still used today in the artisan production of Samurai swords (considered a national treasure). It is that bog iron, which is credited as being one of the purest iron ores in the world, that is used to produce the Samurai sword. One of the multiple reasons for the excellent quality of those swords was the use of that bog iron during original smelting. This is a long subject unto itself...

Once you are getting cast irons made in the early 1900's and beyond, those are beginning to become quite high quality cast irons - if the manufacturer wanted to make them as such. All nostalgia aside, the quality of cast irons today are greatly superior to cast irons prior to 1900, and between then and WWII, also most likely the case. There are some cast irons during that time period that could approach what we can do today.

Cast irons are not like the bronzes. The Chinese had perfected the cast bronze technology in ancient times. That technology has been lost. We still cannot today reproduce what they had achieved. That is not the case for cast irons.

dj


 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. May. 09, 2015 8:29 pm

Fascinating ! Thank you Dave for posting that.

So, the differences in the smelting process to make the raw iron might actually be a factor in why we see so many of some makes of stoves, yet so few of others that were supposedly also made in large quantity.

Your mention of differences in bog iron deposits from place to place is also mentioned in some of what I've been able to find on line. One of the Taunton history links mentions that one of the factories (apparently not a stove factory) brought in bog iron from New Jersey, but found it to be inferior to the local iron for their needs. Mixing NJ bog iron with their local iron apparently solved the problem well enough to suffice.

Paul

 
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Post by Photog200 » Sun. May. 10, 2015 6:44 am

That is interesting information DJ, thanks for posting. I did read the posting about Russian steel but was not aware of the special formula's they used for iron as well. After reading about the Russian steel being used in some barrels of stoves and it being superior steel and it being a greenish black color, I decided not to paint the barrel of my Andes Oak stove. It has that greenish black color to it and it has a gloss that I have never seen on a stove before (without paint) I do not believe the barrel has been painted, it has scratches on it and does not look like it is in paint. I am not 100% sure that it is Russian steel, but it sure does look like what was described in the article I read about it.

Randy

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. May. 21, 2015 10:25 am

I'm reposting this here. It's from a discussion in Pancho's thread on using a "wood plate" in his Glenwood #8 base heater.
Thought it might benefit anyone using a coal/wood stove for cooking, also.

Wood Plate in a No 8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to the high cost of Pro-pain, I've been experimenting with using the coal range throughout the year, as long as possible.

Using wood in the shoulder months, I've done. Just like my fireplace and wood stove days, all that cutting, splitting and having to build a new fire every morning got old. I found it easier to adjust the dampers to slow the range way down and divert more heat to the chimney to maintain a safe draft. That worked well until it got up into the 80's outside. Then, even with the back door next to the range open, it gets too hot in the kitchen. No big deal because Melissa loves to cook on the BBQ grill.

However, when it's raining and we can't use the grill, then it's just the expensive pro-pain stove, or the coal range. I paid $4.29 a gallon for pro-pain tank re-fill last year. I checked a week ago and it's only down to $3.90 a gallon this year. :mad:

I'm toying with the idea of making a "summer grate" - a wood plate for the kitchen range, but with a modern improvement.

Someone on here told me to try poplar for quick hot fires that last just long enough to cook a meal.

To improve of that even more, on one of the modern wood ranges, I saw an idea I like. An optional, raised wood plate for getting a small fire up closer under the cook top surface. That way, I don't have to build as big a fire and heat alot more of the range just to get the top up to cooking temps.

Gotta find a local a wood cutter that can cut/split some poplar wood. :D

Paul

 
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Post by ddahlgren » Fri. May. 22, 2015 3:29 am

Don't discount maple either it will season up quicker than oak or pine for that matter they burn a lot in the north west and it burns hot and fast and the only way to burn it an keep the chimney clean. If ypu have not burned a lot of wood the only other thing is it need to be split down to small pieces around the size of a 2X4 or slightly smaller so a good surface area to fuel ratio. Build renovation scrap wood mostly fir and pine trim boards a prime source of hot fast fires and usually free but you do have to process it to a useable length. Old pallets the same but most well seasoned and very dry. But auain have to be processed to a balance of cost and time. If you have the time the cost is close to free. Wood cutters around here want to split to the largest possible size that burns slow and lazy not suitable for cooking or maximum heat unless the stove is very large. Biobricks / enviro bricks are another possibility. I have gotten a years worth of 90% heating load from old pallets many years ago. Biggest thing lots of secondary air available, secondary heated burn tubes get 50% of the heat by burning the volatile gases. But guessing you know all this stuff.

 
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Post by dhansen » Fri. May. 22, 2015 8:11 am

I've never tried it but the favored wood years ago here in midcoast Maine for quick, hot biscuit fires was alder. This alder is more of a large shrub than a tree that likes growing in wet, soggy soil, something we have plenty of around here. I've been told it burns well when still green. Being more of a shrub, there was nothing to split, simply cut it to length and throw it in the stove. I knew an old man that was likely one of the last people around here that heated and cooked exclusively with alder. I have no idea what make his old cook stove was but it leaked as much smoke into the cabin as it put out through the chimney. The interior of the place was black with soot. All of his wood came from the land that he owned, cut with a hand saw and hauled back to the cabin in a wheelbarrow.

Johnny Monroe, his cabin and stove are long gone now but I'll never forget sitting with him, eyes stinging from the smoke and feeling like I'd been transported back in time to the mid 1800's.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. May. 22, 2015 9:06 am

I have lots of small wind-fall branches on the property - mostly black walnut and maple. Most are too small , or too big. Too small and they need near constant firebox reloading and burn too quickly. Too big and they burn too slow.

And I have a lot of sumac, which grows to a good size before it falls over with such shallow roots. But it gets rather exciting to burn ! It has sap pockets that explode. Sounds like someone is throwing small firecrackers in the stove. :shock: And handling it gets everything very sticky with all the sap on the outside.

Plus, all of that gets rather messy compared to cut/split hardwood. Some of the old pictures show stacks of "stove wood" next to the old kitchen range. Firebox lengths and nothing bigger than about 3 inches in thickness. Nicely sized to burn quickly.

I've burned oak, both white and red, ash, and maple in this range. Bought them as face cord size and had to cut the lengths in half and split them down even thinner. And, if they are split quite narrow, they are still too thick, dense and hard to give a hot and short duration fire. A lot of work and my shoulders are not up for that anymore.

As far as wood pallets, around here they get quickly grabbed up by all the trailer home wood stove owners. And cutting up pallets can be alot of work getting them apart with those darned cement coated staples they use to put them together. Been there, done that. :(

Paul


 
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Post by Photog200 » Fri. May. 22, 2015 10:58 am

I use those small windfall branches for kindling and keep a big blue bin full of those. Paul have you ever used a froe to cut the too large pieces of wood into smaller ones? I am thinking about ordering one. I would be able to split wood inside where it is warmer during the winter months. I have been splitting my wood quite small and I probably won't need to split a lot of them. Here is a link to what I am talking about. https://www.lehmans.com/p-686-lehmans-own-old-fas ... -froe.aspx
I cut a cherry tree down from the back yard and have been burning that in the stove. It does not burn as hot or fast as some of the other woods you have mentioned, but if split small it gets the stove hot enough to cook very quickly. Because it is a hardwood, the fire lasts longer, not what you are looking for on a hot summer day. I like to put a fire in the stove at least once or twice a week to help keep the stove dried out and keeps the rust away. Cooking with coal is a lot easier though, stove is always hot, don't have to start the fire every time you want to cook.

I ordered a load of firewood logs so that I can cut them to the length I wanted. The Andes stove likes the shorter length wood as well as the cook stove. I have been cutting them about 14" lengths. I had to put the cutting and splitting on hold for now though, having hip replacement in a few weeks.

Randy

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Fri. May. 22, 2015 12:21 pm

Randy,

Sorry to hear about the hip. Hope it all goes well with a quick recovery.

I've tried using a froe, but it doesn't work well with the twisty, knotty grained first growth wood that I have. Most of the wood that winds up as firewood is the same. The straighter grained wood that is big enough that it needs splitting is too valuable for firewood. It gets sold to the saw mill near here, or kept by the wood cutters for their own use, because it's easier to split.

And, it's still alot of work.

Best I tried was the white oak cutoffs I had left over from building a 1927 truck body. Nothing thicker than 2 inch, no bark, bugs, or debris, and all uniformly kiln dried. So, it burned a bit faster/hotter than cord wood oak. But, at over $6.00 a board foot I'm not buying that just to throw in a stove. :shock:

I'll check locally and see if we get poplar trees around here. If so, then maybe I can get the smaller branches to cut up and try.

Paul

 
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Post by ddahlgren » Sat. May. 23, 2015 8:18 am

Without knowing how many here have burned a lot of wood but do keep in mind it takes a very long time to season unsplit wood of any size. Oak is generally 2 to 2 1/2 years after being cut to length and split. Maple is generally good in a year. That and all wood dealers are less than honest about the wood being seasoned and how much is in the load. I have had the best luck with keeping my eyes open for a house being remodeled or built. Lots of scrap lumber to be had. Around here they are charged by the ton to get rid of it so often let you take what you want.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. May. 23, 2015 9:45 am

That's been a problem I've run into with some of the wood cutters around here. They say the wood is "well seasoned", but it seems their seasons are shorter than an artic summer ! :(

Paul

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. May. 23, 2015 10:08 am

Well,...woke up to 30F here. Nearing the end of May and we're still getting tastes of winter. Glad I re-lit the range a few days ago. Melissa's off to a Niece's graduation, so I'm left fending for myself. :roll:

Anyway, when Mother Nature gives us lemons, I say, make bacon ! :D

As long as the oven was going I threw some bacon on a rack. With the oven at about 250 F, I gave it 15 minutes, then I turned the rack end-for-end, and then gave it another 20 minutes. Not bad for my first time without Melissa's guidance to keep me from turning it into charcoal. :oops:

Wish I had learned about this baking method long ago ! The bacon comes out more evenly cooked, nice and flat for sandwiches, if needed. All the grease has dripped off down into the baking sheet.

One of the best parts with an antique range is that with it's oven vented into the flue near the pipe collar, the house doesn't reek of bacon all day, and there's no need to clean the oven.

Plus, that also saves having to clean the stove top mess from spatters.

The half-sheet stainless steel pan and rack were well worth the bit of extra cost because they save money in the long run by being able to go right into the dish washer.

When I think of all the mess and fogging out the house with bacon smoke, back when I used to fry it on the stove top ... oh well, live and learn. :roll:

Now, to cook some eggs and get through the tough part - leaving some bacon for a BLT sandwich later on . :D

Paul

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Post by ddahlgren » Sat. May. 23, 2015 12:04 pm

I have been making bacon like that for ages but in a cast iron pan and a rack or the iron skillet with a ribbed bottom. It seasons the pan while cooking the bacon though do it at 325 and does not spatter and unfortunately an electric oven though do have a gas cooktop.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Jul. 15, 2015 9:56 am

Speaking of seasoning cast iron - yet again. :D

Seasoning with flaxseed oil has been mentioned before, but here's more about it with test results. I have a cast iron pan that someone who shall remain nameless, cooked veggies in vinegar on the grill. :roll: Anyway, we discovered that cooking vinegar in a Lodge pan is a good way to start removing sections of the factory preseasoning.

So now, the pan has been completely stripped to bare metal with Easy-off oven cleaner. As soon as I get done sanding it smoother, I'll get to try the flaxseed oil treatment recommended by others far more experienced with cast iron cookware than I.

Here's the website, America's Test Kitchen.

http://www.americastestkitchenfeed.com/gadgets-an ... cast-iron/

I like to watch their PBS TV show, mostly because they don't just throw together a recipe, like most other cooking shows, they explain the chemistry science that goes on during prep and cooking, and why they chose the methods they use. Plus, I also like the rather thorough testing of kitchen equipment that they do as part of the show.

Paul

 
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Post by ddahlgren » Wed. Jul. 15, 2015 11:09 am

There is a Facebook group for cast iron cookware that is packed with ifor though got thrown off it LOL. A mom made dinner and her mentally challenged young daughter took it upon herself to do the dishes for mom well she managed to damage the finish in a few and mom went on a FB rant about it and I unloaded on her that she should be happy she has a loving daughter that wants to help without being asked. The moderator said I was being too harsh LOL if he only knew what I wanted to say and held back..

To the question of what oil yes have heard flaxseed does well as do many others including Crisco or bacon fat for that matter. It is all about the temperature you need to get it to form the coating and the chemical term escapes me right now, no doubt remember it this afternoon sad to say. I have used olive oil at 450-475 degrees as it is always around and easy to put my hands on. With the Easy off be sure to use the version in the yellow can and not the blue can as the blue can stuff will get into the metal and there is no way to get it out. The stuff will poison you and anyone else that eats food from the pan. The stuff in the yellow can is lye and food safe.

I was told from a friend in the foundry biz and with several degrees in metallurgy that bog iron is actually very low grade iron and used way back when as the cheapest and local. In 1905 everything moved locally by horse and wagon and not tri-axel dump truck. I have been told by others that the best iron ore comes rom India and called mehanite and used for making machine tools as it is very stable and ridged. In motorsports if a cast iron engine block has to be used usually all have a high nickel content for strengrh and resistance to fatigue.


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