Cookin' with coal

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:56 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Thanhs for the good info,from both of you,Randy & Paul,with warming oven,where does the flue top 90 come off at what height ? Haven't had the time yet to look up the sq.in. formula but those old ranges only hold about 20# if i recall right,would be about 240,000 btu to burn in 6 hrs = 40,000 btu/hr.,not sure if these figures are close to right & if they are, 40k is on the low side for 1200 sq.ft . good to have both of you guys back on this thread!!!

David,
While it is good to use the BTU numbers as a basic guide, I think you would be doing yourself a disservice if you only go by those to make your decision on a stove. It is correct to assume you get basically a certain amount of BTU per pound of coal. However, if the stove does not transmit those BTU's to your house and let them go up the chimney, you loose your calculations for square footage. A baseburner will give you a very efficient transfer of BTU's to your house. It has been mine and Paul's experience that you get excellent heat transfer for the amount of coal burned in these cook stoves. (if you leave the oven door open). I am sure there are many good stoves out there that will give you good heat transfer but it is my opinion that you cannot always go just by the numbers.
Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, & Kineo #15 base heater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:48 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Thanhs for the good info,from both of you,Randy & Paul,with warming oven,where does the flue top 90 come off at what height ? Haven't had the time yet to look up the sq.in. formula but those old ranges only hold about 20# if i recall right,would be about 240,000 btu to burn in 6 hrs = 40,000 btu/hr.,not sure if these figures are close to right & if they are, 40k is on the low side for 1200 sq.ft . good to have both of you guys back on this thread!!!


As I've mentioned, my stove is small-ish size-wise. The fire box is also on the small side compared to the same model only a few years later. And, it has the original fire brick liners which tend to be thicker then the ones I've seen in restored stoves. Plus mine has 110 years of scale build-up making the fire box that much narrower.

Even at that, from an empty firebox start, my range holds roughly 25 pounds of nut coal. It goes through 25 pounds every 24 hours in the shoulder months and 30-32 pounds a day in the coldest months. It will easily go 10-11 hours damped down through the night maintaining 600-700 degrees over the firebox end, with stack temps of 105-110, 36 inches up from the cook top, the the next morning. In oven mode and water tank flue also on, it has over 45 square feet of external heat radiating surface area and a total 12 feet internal flues length. Restored with new firebox liner it will hold closer to 28-30 pounds of nut coal - obviously less with stove coal.

A Stove like Randy's is larger and a more common size of stoves of the early 1900's, with a larger firebox and oven. I think that with more time burning coal he'll find that his range will have more heat output, and likely run about an hour longer overnight then mine can.

I don't leave the oven door open to get more heat out because I have to re-seal it, which Randy found made a big difference. From Randy's feed back, I'll be trying that as soon as I get the oven seams re-sealed to see what it does for room temps at the same damper settings I use now. I know it will open the inner surfaces of the oven flues to heating the room, but I don't know what it will do to the draft pulling that much heat out of the flues.

Randy and I have been swapping what we learn as we go. But, even after 8 years of running the stove for heating and cooking, 8-9 months a year, plus talks with the girl friend and her father about the 40 years they used their Rathbone and Sard range, these old kitchen ranges are so versatile, I'm still learning tricks about operating it.

That versatility is the main reason I started this thread.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:55 pm

Photog200 wrote:Firing up the cook stove with coal this morning. I wanted a good hot fire today for all the cooking so I went out the the bin and brought in all the big pieces of coal. Today is my family get together for Christmas so I have lots of cooking to do. I am making beef tenderloin, ham, shrimp, broccoli and if I have time some bread. My sister and Mom are cooking the other stuff.

Randy


Has the family seen the Clarion in use before ? I know they'll love it just on looks alone. Have a great day !

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:24 pm

thanks for the info , Randy & Paul open oven door is an interesting tip,Randy how big is the garage you heat ?
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:24 pm

Dave,
Randy and I put info about space being heated in this thread.


need a SMALL coal stove to heat 300 sq. ft. cabin

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:46 pm

Early on in this thread there was mention of a required conversion for the Colonial Clarion cook stove in order to make it suitable for burning anthracite coal. What is the conversion that is required?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:06 pm

Thanks Paul ,i knew i saw that info somewhere but could not find it , Randy is heating 624 sq.ft. we have approx. 1300 sq.ft. poorly insulated,& very lousy windows,so we will have to consider savings on electric & wood if we go coal range, & if we go BB or box stove ..50-93 or Kodiak we would save more wood bit little electric savings,wood cost is not our ultimate savings goal but rather the work involved with all that wood.We spend $3-4K on wood/yr.so not too bad for all the demand we place on our heat system,coal range would save a little on wood + how much electric depends on how dedicated wife becomes to cooking electric free.Sorry i didn't get back to you sooner,i've been sick this week & took time to read lots of threads on here,just finished -burning coal in Clayton-= wow takes a more dedicated person then me to fool around with a stove that much,we did try burning coal in our OWB,too much hassle,throw wood in,close the door,depending on weather,8-10 hrs.open door,rake ashes down,fill with wood,close door,done.By the way Paul welcome back to this thread,if i didn't say it b4,i've missed this thread.4 O'clock time to flip the closed sign on the shop & go cut more wood,we have a guy bringing us an F250 load every week,that doesn't quite keep us supplied.
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:42 pm

lsayre wrote:Early on in this thread there was mention of a required conversion for the Colonial Clarion cook stove in order to make it suitable for burning anthracite coal. What is the conversion that is required?


Many of the kitchen ranges came set up just for wood. In fact that's the more common way I see them for sale now. For wood they usually just have thin cast iron firebox liners to gain more space for wood (longer burn times) and thinner grates that don't handle coal as well.

Some ranges, like mine, came with the firebrick firebox liners and triangular coal grates. They can burn wood or coal, but with the firebrick much thicker then the cast iron liners, they can't hold as much, or as long pieces of wood. Mine has a removable section of firebrick in the front and a cast iron baffle just outboard of it behind the front loading door. With coal, the baffle and firebrick stay in place and the loading door is not used. Coal gets put in through the lift-out round top plates, or the broiler door on the top left of the stove.

With wood the firebrick and baffle come out, allowing loading through the front and more wood length, but mine's only good for about 17 inch long wood even with the added length. Some of the later, or bigger models could take up to 24 inch long pieces and almost 50% more volume of wood.

I've seen more than one kitchen range for sale that looks like it never had firebrick liners, with a crack in the oven wall next to the firebox. One of the reasons why it's best to use the firebrick lining with coal. Like checking the grates, carefully checking the oven wall next to the firebox is a must when looking to buy an old range.

Hope this answered your question, if not "fire away" with more ! :D

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:49 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Photog200 wrote:Firing up the cook stove with coal this morning. I wanted a good hot fire today for all the cooking so I went out the the bin and brought in all the big pieces of coal. Today is my family get together for Christmas so I have lots of cooking to do. I am making beef tenderloin, ham, shrimp, broccoli and if I have time some bread. My sister and Mom are cooking the other stuff.

Randy


Has the family seen the Clarion in use before ? I know they'll love it just on looks alone. Have a great day !

Paul

Yes, the family has seen it in operation, but not today. Our get together was at my Sisters house so I had to take everything over there. I was running late so I did not get a chance to take photos of the food. (sorry)
Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, & Kineo #15 base heater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:52 pm

lsayre wrote:Early on in this thread there was mention of a required conversion for the Colonial Clarion cook stove in order to make it suitable for burning anthracite coal. What is the conversion that is required?

That is correct Larry, when I got the cook stove, it was set up for burning wood. I had to get coal grates for it (easy to replace, they are in a frame and just slide in) and had to line the interior with refractory material and I had to close each end off with refractory material as well...essentially make a rectangular box to contain the coal.
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, & Kineo #15 base heater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:55 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:thanks for the info , Randy & Paul open oven door is an interesting tip,Randy how big is the garage you heat ?

My garage is 24'X26'. It has 2"X4" walls that are insulated and 16" of blown in cellulose insulation in the attic. I just put in new insulated garage doors as well, so it is pretty well insulated for a garage.

Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, & Kineo #15 base heater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:00 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
lsayre wrote:Early on in this thread there was mention of a required conversion for the Colonial Clarion cook stove in order to make it suitable for burning anthracite coal. What is the conversion that is required?


Many of the kitchen ranges came set up just for wood. In fact that's the more common way I see them for sale now. For wood they usually just have thin cast iron firebox liners to gain more space for wood (longer burn times) and thinner grates that don't handle coal as well.

Some ranges, like mine, came with the firebrick firebox liners and triangular coal grates. They can burn wood or coal, but with the firebrick much thicker then the cast iron liners, they can't hold as much, or as long pieces of wood. Mine has a removable section of firebrick in the front and a cast iron baffle just outboard of it behind the front loading door. With coal, the baffle and firebrick stay in place and the loading door is not used. Coal gets put in through the lift-out round top plates, or the broiler door on the top left of the stove.

With wood the firebrick and baffle come out, allowing loading through the front and more wood length, but mine's only good for about 17 inch long wood even with the added length. Some of the later, or bigger models could take up to 24 inch long pieces and almost 50% more volume of wood.

I've seen more than one kitchen range for sale that looks like it never had firebrick liners, with a crack in the oven wall next to the firebox. One of the reasons why it's best to use the firebrick lining with coal. Like checking the grates, carefully checking the oven wall next to the firebox is a must when looking to buy an old range.

Hope this answered your question, if not "fire away" with more ! :D

Paul

My firebox on the Clarion is 17" long X 6" wide and 6" deep. If I took the refractory linings out, I could get 22" long wood in it. Right now, the ideal size for wood is 14" because of putting the wood in through the lift out plates.
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, & Kineo #15 base heater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:10 pm

Something interesting happened today when cooking. I started the coal fire and it was going great...put it into oven mode and the oven was at 400° with the primary air only opened a little. Then all of a sudden (two hrs. later) the temps started dropping. I had to open the primary air all the way just to keep the oven at 350°. I am not sure if it was the temps outside warming up or if the chimney cooled off after putting into oven mode. I have a feeling it was the outside temps going up because it was in oven mode for a couple hrs before this started happening. I have to order two of those manometers!
Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, & Kineo #15 base heater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:20 pm

Good info !!! Randy ,your still on internet,guess your mother wasn't too upset with you being late, ahha,you didn't tell her it was this forum made you late??? :shh: thanks to both of you for your continued posting,i don't like to go into something blind & ignorant,glad to see isayre here instead of shopping for Big generator,i was eaves dropping on that other thread :roll:
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Cookin' with coal

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:28 pm

Photog200 wrote:Something interesting happened today when cooking. I started the coal fire and it was going great...put it into oven mode and the oven was at 400° with the primary air only opened a little. Then all of a sudden (two hrs. later) the temps started dropping. I had to open the primary air all the way just to keep the oven at 350°. I am not sure if it was the temps outside warming up or if the chimney cooled off after putting into oven mode. I have a feeling it was the outside temps going up because it was in oven mode for a couple hrs before this started happening. I have to order two of those manometers!
Randy



Could be a combination of that. Plus, with the shallower firebox of the range, depending on how long the majority of coal had been burning, it may have needed some fresh coal and shake the grates ?

When I'm doing a lot of cooking, to maintain higher cooking temps I have to shake the grates some and sprinkle on a layer of fresh coal about every two-three hours. Just one thin layer, but it does help keep the higher cooking temps up.

When not cooking, I can go for many more hours not having to do any of that when just using the stove for heating.

Could something like that be happening with yours ?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Visit Hitzer Stoves