Single car coal shipments

Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:49 am

You would be very surprised to learn how many coal tracks are yet in existence. They are everywhere, even in very urban areas such as around New York. The pilings are still there but the sidings and switches have been taken out long ago. When I take someone in the cab with me on a trip, I will point them out. Everybody with any sized industry had an elevated coal dump track in the back of the building. Most coal yards were located next to the track. Some of them appear quite serviceable, even with paved parking lots up under the concrete bins where the coal would fall from the car above. Not that they would do us much good these days, I thought it might be an interesting little bit of information to know about.
wsherrick
 
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:22 am

Thanks for your insights. You cannot get closer that the guy in the locomotive. Bet you have wonderful stories and lots of history. Trains built this country.....and trucking has made our lives easier.
whistlenut
 
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: ntp71 On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:18 pm

Can't you just call the Coal Company and ask them how much it costs for a shipment by train?

http://jeddocoal.com/

Then click Loading and Transportation
ntp71
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
Baseburners & Antiques: Caloric UltraMatic Coal-Gas Range


Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:30 pm

Everyone in a specific area who wants coal should get together and brain storm. Invite the local coal suppliers and tell them what you want to do. If the supplier has a firm commitment for a specific amount of coal he can pre sell, he might cut you a break on the price and arrange the shipping. I know. Getting a firm commitment from a bunch of people and asking them to cough up the $$$ before hand might prove,.....difficult. :bang:
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:00 pm

Carbon12 wrote:Everyone in a specific area who wants coal should get together and brain storm. Invite the local coal suppliers and tell them what you want to do. If the supplier has a firm commitment for a specific amount of coal he can pre sell, he might cut you a break on the price and arrange the shipping. I know. Getting a firm commitment from a bunch of people and asking them to cough up the $$$ before hand might prove,.....difficult. :bang:


Call a coal broker. These people deal with mines, railroads, etc they know how to figure rates, per diem, drayage and demurage costs. That is their business. That's how you should approach buying that much coal in bulk.
wsherrick
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: None
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:07 pm

http://centraliacoal.com/a1.html

A place to start. Any takers???
Carbon12
 
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: ntp71 On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:19 pm

ntp71 wrote:Can't you just call the Coal Company and ask them how much it costs for a shipment by train?

http://jeddocoal.com/

Then click Loading and Transportation


Hello?
ntp71
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
Baseburners & Antiques: Caloric UltraMatic Coal-Gas Range

Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: DePippo79 On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:18 pm

Dungeon master, I was just stating general numbers. Alot of variety in rail cars. 286,000lbs. or (x) number is the weight capacity of the track/line. CSX Boston Line is rated for 315,000lbs. or less. The line over to the Chelsea Produce Market is only good for 273,000lbs. so you wouldn't see a 160 ton hi cube going over there. Plus you would sardine it into Memorial Drive. Ran trains between Boston and Selkirk, NY for a long time before going into passenger service.
I think I have a way to avoid the car hire cost. I know of one privately owned hopper car. If I could convince the owner to let me use it home free. Wheels will have to have roller bearings. Friction bearings back to the drawing board. Banned from the national rail network. So if my friend will let me use a track, do the paperwork and I can use this hopper car next step would be to find a coal company to ship it to and hopefully load it. Next are the financials. I figure $100.00/ton x 80 $8000.00 plus shipping $3-5000.00. 5-6 railroads involved and they all get a piece. Be set for coal for the next 16 years. Nothng happening this week between work and the holiday.
As I said before this is just a fun project. Renewing alot of old acquaintences. Be cool if I could do it if I found the funds.

ntp71, if only it was that easy. No railroad (maybe a shortline) will want to deal with a single car. How would someone off the street unload it. Talking 80 tons. I still don't know what I would do. Buy a dump truck?The basement of the barn is only so big. Bin in the woods probably. If I can use this hopper car I won't have to worry about demurrage and all that. I could take all the time in the world to unload because the car isn''t owned by another railroad. My friends railroad would be it's home road. If I didn't know my friend I would never bother.
DePippo79
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak 40
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:26 pm

So,....somewhere in the neighborhood of $150.00/ton to point of distribution. That's $85/ton less than I pay and I live an hour from the breakers! DOOOOO IT! :up:
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:55 pm

Old trestle dump in Ridgwood NJ...
Car dealer there when i was a kid...
cars parked where the bulk product would fall to...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:33 am

DePippo79 wrote:Dungeon master, I was just stating general numbers. Alot of variety in rail cars. 286,000lbs. or (x) number is the weight capacity of the track/line. CSX Boston Line is rated for 315,000lbs. or less. The line over to the Chelsea Produce Market is only good for 273,000lbs. so you wouldn't see a 160 ton hi cube going over there. Plus you would sardine it into Memorial Drive. Ran trains between Boston and Selkirk, NY for a long time before going into passenger service.
I think I have a way to avoid the car hire cost. I know of one privately owned hopper car. If I could convince the owner to let me use it home free. Wheels will have to have roller bearings. Friction bearings back to the drawing board. Banned from the national rail network. So if my friend will let me use a track, do the paperwork and I can use this hopper car next step would be to find a coal company to ship it to and hopefully load it. Next are the financials. I figure $100.00/ton x 80 $8000.00 plus shipping $3-5000.00. 5-6 railroads involved and they all get a piece. Be set for coal for the next 16 years. Nothng happening this week between work and the holiday.
As I said before this is just a fun project. Renewing alot of old acquaintences. Be cool if I could do it if I found the funds.

ntp71, if only it was that easy. No railroad (maybe a shortline) will want to deal with a single car. How would someone off the street unload it. Talking 80 tons. I still don't know what I would do. Buy a dump truck?The basement of the barn is only so big. Bin in the woods probably. If I can use this hopper car I won't have to worry about demurrage and all that. I could take all the time in the world to unload because the car isn''t owned by another railroad. My friends railroad would be it's home road. If I didn't know my friend I would never bother.


I don't think CSX offers any boxcars rated for over 100 tons, or open hoppers rated for over 110 tons, so there's no real possibility of loads larger than that.

In your $ numbers, you might get a price break for buying 80 tons (though $100/ton seems low), but I don't think the mines will give you any meaningful break for shipping by rail vs. truck. On the transportation side, you could spend approximately the same $50/ton and get the coal delivered to its actual destination(s) at a time of your choosing without buying a dump truck, providing a loader, etc. I like the concept of a carload shipment, but the reality is it normally could only be accomplished at higher cost and lower convenience relative to trucking.

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:13 am

Sigh,.....alas,...trucking probably much easier to arrange. Say 22 tons at 180/ton plus 30/ton to transport equals $210/ton delivered. That's not bad. Less than I pay. Unfortunately, you could NEVER get a tractor trailer positioned on the steep hill my house sits on. The coal truck driver needed directions to come up the hill rather than down the hill to get here. He was worried about his brakes and I only ordered 3 ton!
Carbon12
 
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: ntp71 On: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:34 am

DePippo79 wrote:
ntp71, if only it was that easy. No railroad (maybe a shortline) will want to deal with a single car. How would someone off the street unload it. Talking 80 tons. I still don't know what I would do. Buy a dump truck?The basement of the barn is only so big. Bin in the woods probably. If I can use this hopper car I won't have to worry about demurrage and all that. I could take all the time in the world to unload because the car isn''t owned by another railroad. My friends railroad would be it's home road. If I didn't know my friend I would never bother.



You never know unless you pick up the phone and call them....that's what my Dad always use to say...but he was always making me do the calling... ;)
ntp71
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: ntp71 On: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:37 am

Carbon12 wrote:So,....somewhere in the neighborhood of $150.00/ton to point of distribution. That's $85/ton less than I pay and I live an hour from the breakers! DOOOOO IT! :up:


Why don't you get yourself an old pickup truck and go to the breaker yourself? Last time I was there I was paying $160 a ton. My little truck can hold 1200lbs a load. So I go every couple of weeks and stop for breakfast on the way there. If I could only afford a trailer my life would be just about complete.
ntp71
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
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Re: Single car coal shipments

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:03 pm

@ ntp71: that's the plan for next summer. I think I can borrow a small dump truck for fuel $$$ and a case of beer :D
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace