Secondary Air Distribution System

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:18 pm

SMITTY wrote:Maybe you could make a screw type adjustment similar to Harman's air intake system, only on a smaller scale?

Use a large air compressor drain valve maybe? You could adjust it with your fingers easily ... :idea:

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywor ... 2nntygax_b

Very good Smitty, I'll take a look at it. Thank you!! :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:18 pm

You could thread a floor flange on the protruding pipe, and bolt a steel plate ,that can throttle the air, through one of the holes but, leave it loose enough so you can turn it or just use a wing nut.
Last edited by carlherrnstein on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Dennis On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:19 pm

do you have the back/inside 1.25" pipe plugged up,so the air can flo evenly thru the holes you drilled.might br too much air.Just stuff some insulation in for a try.
Last edited by Dennis on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dennis
 
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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:20 pm

carlherrnstein wrote:You could thread a floor flange on the protruding pipe, and bolt a steel plate ,that can throttle the air, through one of the holes but, leave it loose enough so you can turn it.

Yes, I like this thinking! Thank you partner 8-)
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:21 pm

Dennis wrote:do you have the back/inside 1.25" pipe plugged up,so the air can flo evenly thru the holes you drilled.might br too much air.Just stuff some insulation in for a try.

Yes sir, the back of the pipes are capped, so air can only come out thru the quarter inch holes I drilled along the pipe.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:22 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Cool idea, for making it hotter !

Is it too hot at the outboard end of the pipes for plumbing ball valves ? Would be easier to see how open they are by the position of the lever type handles. 90 degrees is fully closed while handle in-line is fully open, etc.. However, there's a nylon ball seat in most that shouldn't get much over 250 degrees.

Paul




congrats. Lightening, GREAT thinking, you are correct in wanting to be able to regulate it.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: wsherrick On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:28 pm

Hello, Marty. Well, future boy, welcome to the year 1900.

Congratulations, on a good job. You have increased the efficiency of your furnace by a quite a bit.
Is there a way to fit standard, spinner type dampers on the ends of the pipes. This would be a simple way to solve the problem of regulation.
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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:32 pm

Here are better views of the secondary air pipes on the face of the furnace. I covered half of each with foil tape till I get a better way to regulate it. THANK YOU everyone for the ideas :D
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Last edited by Lightning on Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:35 pm

wsherrick wrote:Hello, Marty. Well, future boy, welcome to the year 1900.

Congratulations, on a good job. You have increased the efficiency of your furnace by a quite a bit.
Is there a way to fit standard, spinner type dampers on the ends of the pipes. This would be a simple way to solve the problem of regulation.

Thank you William, that means a lot :D I like the spinner damper idea, I'll see what I can come up with :D

Maybe we'll meet, somewhere long ago :lol:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:53 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Is that one inch conduit ? If so, 3/4 inch fits rather nicely inside it. You could make them into rotary sleeve valves by having 3/4 conduit inside the 1 inch.

Drill matching holes from the 1 inch into the 3/4 inch. With the 1 inch tubes fastened in place so they don't move, when the 3/4 inch tubes are turned they will start to close off the 1/4 inch holes because of the holes going out of alignment. That will restrict all the holes in the pipes equal amount at the same time. ;)

Edit, ok, I see your using 1-1/4 inch. How snug does the 1 inch fit inside it ?

Paul


Awesome idea, some of my holes aren't in a perfect line due to the drill dancing around. But I understand your suggestion, its excellent since it would restrict each hole individually. But lining them up would be challenging :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:00 pm

I like the idea of a another pipe fitted inside the 1 1/4 pipe but only 2 inches long. Inner pipe capped and having 1/2 inch holes drilled around the periphery. By sliding in or out the 1/2 holes are more or less exposed.

I was concerned that having equal sized holes in the distribution pipes that most of the air would be distributed nearest the supply in the front of the stove. I think I would have considered a series of holes smaller at the front and bigger at the back to equalize distribution. This may or may not be a problem and observation should give the answer.

Good job. Next is to try to document any difference in performance.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:06 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Is that one inch conduit ? If so, 3/4 inch fits rather nicely inside it. You could make them into rotary sleeve valves by having 3/4 conduit inside the 1 inch.

Drill matching holes from the 1 inch into the 3/4 inch. With the 1 inch tubes fastened in place so they don't move, when the 3/4 inch tubes are turned they will start to close off the 1/4 inch holes because of the holes going out of alignment. That will restrict all the holes in the pipes equal amount at the same time. ;)

Edit, ok, I see your using 1-1/4 inch. How snug does the 1 inch fit inside it ?

Paul


Awesome idea, some of my holes aren't in a perfect line due to the drill dancing around. But I understand your suggestion, its excellent since it would restrict each hole individually. But lining them up would be challenging :D


Yes, that's the nice thing about sleeve valves - ALL the feed holes adjust at the same rate keeping air feed adjustments consistent along the lengths of the pipes.

If the restriction is only at the end of the pipe, once past that restriction, if the air volumn going in is less that the total all the holes can flow, the air will take the path of least resistance and come out the holes closest to the outboard end.

Drill bit alignment should be easy. As long as the inner and outer pipe don't move while your drilling, the holes in the 1-1/4 pipe will act as a drill guide. Even if you go larger - say a 5/16 bit, it will compensate for any initial wandering of the bit.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:23 pm

If you can't get a conduit in a size that is a close fit inside the 1-1/4 you can cut it lengthwise with a Dremel, or air grinder cutoff tool, opposite where your going to drill holes. Using a wedge, such as the blade of a screw driver, or cold chiseled, tapped carefully with a hammer along the length of the cut, you can spread the inner pipe so that it will fit better inside the 1-1/4 pipe. The split will not be near the holes, so it will not have any affect on air control.

A piece of metal rod through the end of the inner pipe should make a simple handle. Make the handle holes the same in each pipe and you can use the handles as a way of seeing how the air feed holes adjustment is matching one side to the other for balancing of the air going in left and right.

Paul
Last edited by Sunny Boy on Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: nortcan On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:24 pm

Paul's idea is a good one for tube inside the tube and with his idea, some air from outside of the stove could help to keep the tubes a little cooler???
If you could find some St-St tubes they could last probably a longer time.
Anyway, can't wait to see photos ,videos all you can showing the blue-jet flames. My hand drill is ready :D
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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:43 pm

With a sleeve the length of the pipe I would be concerned with corrosion freezing it up too easily or even a bit of fly ash.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
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