Secondary Air Distribution System

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:56 pm

franco b wrote:Just like sunrise and sunset ain't really happening.


:D Oh, they happen alright, but not because the sun moves. ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: wsherrick On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:00 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
nortcan wrote:Bravo. One of the best thread if not the best one. Lot of informations here...
One thing that runs in my head since the beginning of the present thread is this.
The fire pot in the Sunny beeing not very deep, the anth load gets sometimes higher than the fire pot contour.
So my question on the air over the fire is: supposed I, hum, or someone else decide to place an air ring on the top of the fire pot, and the anthracite covers the ring, then is it a problem to get an efficient gasses burning?


I would think that it would only be a problem if the ring is so buried that it somehow blocks off, or greatly restricts, incoming secondary air.


Paul


Did you see the two types of secondary air systems I put up? There was the over fire method and the method that Germer used in the Radiant Home Hot Blast. The Germer system admitted the air right into the fire bed. It would be nice if some one had one of these designs to see how it worked. Another thing that has to be remembered is the air has to be hot enough to burn the gasses. If it isn't then it has to be heated up first before it can do so. That's why it was deemed important to heat the air before it entered the fire pot. It was hot enough from time of entry to burn the gas right away without over cooling the area and causing the opposite effect.
To directly answer your question, if Germer's system worked then I wouldn't worry about having coal slightly cover the top ring.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:16 pm

wsherrick wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:
nortcan wrote:Bravo. One of the best thread if not the best one. Lot of informations here...
One thing that runs in my head since the beginning of the present thread is this.
The fire pot in the Sunny beeing not very deep, the anth load gets sometimes higher than the fire pot contour.
So my question on the air over the fire is: supposed I, hum, or someone else decide to place an air ring on the top of the fire pot, and the anthracite covers the ring, then is it a problem to get an efficient gasses burning?


I would think that it would only be a problem if the ring is so buried that it somehow blocks off, or greatly restricts, incoming secondary air.


Paul


Did you see the two types of secondary air systems I put up? There was the over fire method and the method that Germer used in the Radiant Home Hot Blast. The Germer system admitted the air right into the fire bed. It would be nice if some one had one of these designs to see how it worked. Another thing that has to be remembered is the air has to be hot enough to burn the gasses. If it isn't then it has to be heated up first before it can do so. That's why it was deemed important to heat the air before it entered the fire pot. It was hot enough from time of entry to burn the gas right away without over cooling the area and causing the opposite effect.
To directly answer your question, if Germer's system worked then I wouldn't worry about having coal slightly cover the top ring.


Yup I saw it. Pretty neat, but then those old timers knew more than we sometimes give then credit for.

Can't tell in the picture. Is the Germer's secondary air channels in a cast liner, or is that an iron firepot ?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

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Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: wsherrick On: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:59 pm

The Germer fire pot is a solid one piece casting with the air channels cast into it.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Akcoal On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:23 am

Hi, first time poster here. will be starting a post here soon myself as i'm nearing completion of my highly modified lennox coal stove homade boiler. burned alot of wood for many years and trying to convert to coal soon. burned a few bags last year. i installed a over air secondarys made out of 1" schedule 40 pipe along with a 1/8' thick baffle. the stove is fan induced forced draft. i'm not sure if it was the wood or the coal temps but the plate and the pipe both warped bad. just bringing this up as you may want to try it a little bit before putting alot of work into conduit which is not nearly as thick. also at times i closed the secondarys completely which you may not want to do prevent conduit meltdown . will be following and good luck, dan
Akcoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Homemade boiler

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:06 am

Akcoal wrote:Hi, first time poster here. will be starting a post here soon myself as i'm nearing completion of my highly modified lennox coal stove homade boiler. burned alot of wood for many years and trying to convert to coal soon. burned a few bags last year. i installed a over air secondarys made out of 1" schedule 40 pipe along with a 1/8' thick baffle. the stove is fan induced forced draft. i'm not sure if it was the wood or the coal temps but the plate and the pipe both warped bad. just bringing this up as you may want to try it a little bit before putting alot of work into conduit which is not nearly as thick. also at times i closed the secondarys completely which you may not want to do prevent conduit meltdown . will be following and good luck, dan



Welcome to the forum partner!! :D
Start a thread about your home made boiler.
Post some pictures, everyone would love to see it!! 8-)
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:42 am

Heres a little video demo I put together this morning 8-)
Video was taken shortly after fresh coal ignition.
Ash pan door is open.
Draft pressure around -.04"wc...
Secondary air inlets are 100% open.

http://youtu.be/xapLAGffVAQ
Last edited by Lightning on Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:55 am

Thanks for posting that. Those blue ladies sure can dance !! :)

Looks like it did fine during the night. Those tubes look like they haven't warped out of position from were they show in yesterday's pix.

Since it's close to 24 hours in use with the tubes, have you noticed any differences in heat output, or coal usage yet?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:07 am

Sunny Boy wrote:Thanks for posting that. Those blue ladies sure can dance !! :)

Looks like it did fine during the night. Those tubes look like they haven't warped out of position from were they show in yesterday's pix.

Since it's close to 24 hours in use with the tubes, have you noticed any differences in heat output, or coal usage yet?

Paul


THanks Paul :D Yeah, I assume the tubes will stay under critical temperature as long as a little cool air is coming in. I haven't revved it up yet either lol.

I can definitely say I get more heat during burn off of volatiles since I used to prop the door open a quarter inch during that phase. Now I let the secondary tubes feed it and I think more of the available oxygen is being used. As far as coal consumption is concerned, that's gonna take some time, there's other variables at play.. Its been warmer outside than the several days preceeding and I also just covered all my windows with the shrink plastic two days ago which helps. During the burn cycle, I'm seeing relatively the same temps between the flue pipe and the front of the furnace so I dunno if that's a valid gauge on output or not.. Not yet anyways lol.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:21 am

Nice video and it is obvious that the pipes are effective. I think burning at a very low output with the warmer weather is where I would expect to see the biggest difference because primary air is so restricted. Instead of a black pile I think there will be flame sooner and more of it, and not just from initial release of gas but throughout the burn.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:42 pm

All I want to say is, YOU ARE MY FRICKEN IDOL, and I hope you make millions... you don't have to patent it just "apply" for the patent! and then send the video to the manufacturer of you stove and those like it. BRILLIANT!
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:51 pm

michaelanthony wrote:All I want to say is, YOU ARE MY FRICKEN IDOL, and I hope you make millions... you don't have to patent it just "apply" for the patent! and then send the video to the manufacturer of you stove and those like it. BRILLIANT!


Wow. Thanks Bro!! :D :notworthy:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:52 pm

You had the go-nads to take some chances with your stove regardless of the cost or model. Blind faith, no you have the wisdom and foresight and should be commended, bravo my friend, hope to shake beers...I mean hands someday!
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:56 pm

I will admit I was trembling like a giddy teenage girlfriend while cutting those holes hahaha. :lol:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Secondary Air Distribution System

PostBy: KingCoal On: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:47 pm

michaelanthony wrote:All I want to say is, YOU ARE MY FRICKEN IDOL, and I hope you make millions... you don't have to patent it just "apply" for the patent! and then send the video to the manufacturer of you stove and those like it. BRILLIANT!


i agree 1000% get control of the intellectual property NOW with a "pat. pending" classification thru application.

then get ready to sell some rights !!

you have every right and reason to and none not to. if you don't the manufacturers WILL find out about it and use it anyway.

you can probably do the same with the rest of your mods. you have designed a new stove from their marginal raw material and deserve the credit and profit.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

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