Unlined Chimney

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: Alfred On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:51 pm

McGiever wrote:Can't the floor be insulated underneath?


Not very easily. I also wanted some of the heat to rise to the first floor.

Al
Alfred
 

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: ntp71 On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:51 pm

grumpy wrote:If you need to reline......



Thanks...I've seen this before, however I am not sure I can afford these guys...my guess would be about $3,000-$5,000. I would like to keep it under $1500. But this may work for others.
ntp71
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Reading Foundry Water Heater
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
Baseburners & Antiques: Caloric UltraMatic Coal-Gas Range

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: ntp71 On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:57 pm

Alfred wrote:Current law (code) says that if I were to replace the existing boiler, then I would be required to have the chimney lined.


What if you keep the oil burner on the chimney and on your first floor add an attractive coal unit and power vent it?
ntp71
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Reading Foundry Water Heater
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Old Mill Mini Stoker
Baseburners & Antiques: Caloric UltraMatic Coal-Gas Range


Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: mmcoal On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:03 pm

grumpy wrote:If you need to reline......



That was pretty neat, but I wasn't too impressed with the way he installed that top. Thin layer of mortar like that holding a loose piece of clay flue probably won't last too long. Plus he didn't even bother to point up the bricks with missing joints which could cause further water damage.
mmcoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: Alfred On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:16 pm

ntp71 wrote:
Alfred wrote:Current law (code) says that if I were to replace the existing boiler, then I would be required to have the chimney lined.


What if you keep the oil burner on the chimney and on your first floor add an attractive coal unit and power vent it?



I couldn't afford it. And my plans are to move from here as soon as I can. I'm hoping to purchase a used coal stove for around $150. Setting up the coal stove in the basement is a pretty low cost solution.

Al
Alfred
 

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: blrman07 On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:31 pm

Code says putting two flues into the same chimney that are different fuel types is a no no.
Code says that tying two flues together to go into the same chimney that are a different fuel type is a no no.
I have an oil boiler and a coal boiler.
House was built in 1895 and has three chimney's. One chimney capped off, one chimney for the oil boiler and one chimney in the dining room for a coal stove which we promptly hooked up.

The oil boiler is in the basement and has it's own chimney. The coal boiler is sitting right beside the oil boiler.

The flue from the oil boiler was disconnected and the fuse is pulled so it cannot accidentally start. The flue was disconnected.
I then put the flue from the coal boiler into the chimney right where the flue from the oil boiler went in and even used everything from the 90 degree elbow to the chimney.

We had to go out of town for a week and couldn't tend the coal and the ashes. Simply matter to disconnect the coal flue and swing the 90 back over to the oil boiler, put the fuse back in, turn the power back on and walla it fired right off no problem.

Got back in town. Shut off the oil boiler, turned the power off, pulled the fuse, swung the flue back over to the coal boiler and fired it off.

One fuel, one flue, one chimney.
I didn't replace anything.
The oil boiler is still there and could be connected and run in less than 5 minutes.
I realize that Pennsylvania doesn't have that code requirement like you do in Maine.
If you want to be 100% up to code then get the coal stove and put wherever you want it and power vent it through the side of the house. I bet Maine has a few codes dealing with that also but cheaper than building a brand new chimney right next to the one you already have.

Rev. Larry
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, using a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly stove in the church
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: Alfred On: Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:07 pm

blrman07 wrote:Code says putting two flues into the same chimney that are different fuel types is a no no.
Code says that tying two flues together to go into the same chimney that are a different fuel type is a no no.
I have an oil boiler and a coal boiler.
House was built in 1895 and has three chimney's. One chimney capped off, one chimney for the oil boiler and one chimney in the dining room for a coal stove which we promptly hooked up.

The oil boiler is in the basement and has it's own chimney. The coal boiler is sitting right beside the oil boiler.

The flue from the oil boiler was disconnected and the fuse is pulled so it cannot accidentally start. The flue was disconnected.
I then put the flue from the coal boiler into the chimney right where the flue from the oil boiler went in and even used everything from the 90 degree elbow to the chimney.

We had to go out of town for a week and couldn't tend the coal and the ashes. Simply matter to disconnect the coal flue and swing the 90 back over to the oil boiler, put the fuse back in, turn the power back on and walla it fired right off no problem.

Got back in town. Shut off the oil boiler, turned the power off, pulled the fuse, swung the flue back over to the coal boiler and fired it off.

One fuel, one flue, one chimney.
I didn't replace anything.
The oil boiler is still there and could be connected and run in less than 5 minutes.
I realize that Pennsylvania doesn't have that code requirement like you do in Maine.
If you want to be 100% up to code then get the coal stove and put wherever you want it and power vent it through the side of the house. I bet Maine has a few codes dealing with that also but cheaper than building a brand new chimney right next to the one you already have.

Rev. Larry


I like your technique Larry. That's slick! I couldn't though rely on the coal stove only, to heat my house from the basement level. But you do have me thinking about a power vent. I think I made some assumptions without really knowing anything about power vents. For example I assumed that a power vent needed an insulated chimney pipe. An insulated chimney pipe for my two story house would be expensive. From what I can see after searching "power vents" on the web, I don't believe they require a flue pipe at all. I need to find out how costly they are. Thanks for bringing power vents to my attention.

Closing for the night. Will respond to all other posts tomorrow.

Al
Alfred
 

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: just peter On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:33 pm

never ever use a power vent chimney on a coal stove.
If you experience a power faillure, the stove will burn for hours and will not venting well.
So with these systems you will live till the next power outage.
My two cents.

Peter.
just peter
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Weso 225 C3, unknown Altan
Coal Size/Type: bituminous coal,
Stove/Furnace Make: unknown, Weso
Stove/Furnace Model: Altan, 225C tile stove

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:53 pm

Excellent Peter ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:41 pm

this is a solution in search of a problem. If your chimney is structurally sound, hook your coal appliance to it and have a beer.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:05 pm

NICE, actually have a 6-pak & RELAX a little :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:48 pm

I have an unlined chimney .. with 2 substantial jogs in it in 2 different directions ... with crumbling mortar that can be scooped out with a fingernail ... and I've been burning coal in it for 9 seasons now. Even burned wood in it several times last year, and this fall. I have 3 appliances that share the flue, 2 at a time.

If you have no wide open gaps in the chimney, your good to go. One way to test for gaps is to toss a small inner tube in a wood fire. :lol: Seriously - If you have leaks, you will know after that! ;) Rubber makes LOTS of thick, black smoke ... and it WILL come out of ANY little opening ... and it REEKS.

Just another one of my unorthodox suggestions. :D I'm the poster child for how NOT to do things around here. toothy
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: Alfred On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:42 am

SMITTY wrote:I have an unlined chimney .. with 2 substantial jogs in it in 2 different directions ... with crumbling mortar that can be scooped out with a fingernail ... and I've been burning coal in it for 9 seasons now. Even burned wood in it several times last year, and this fall. I have 3 appliances that share the flue, 2 at a time.

If you have no wide open gaps in the chimney, your good to go. One way to test for gaps is to toss a small inner tube in a wood fire. :lol: Seriously - If you have leaks, you will know after that! ;) Rubber makes LOTS of thick, black smoke ... and it WILL come out of ANY little opening ... and it REEKS.

Just another one of my unorthodox suggestions. :D I'm the poster child for how NOT to do things around here. toothy


Thanks, Smitty.

I'm not even sure how many flues I have. But one thing for sure is that my chimney top is falling apart. I have an oil burner and my recent Crane 44 purchase in the basement. I installed the 44 yesterday and have since burned coal. The oil burner and the Crane are tied together. The flue at that point jogs up at an angle, and is about 8"X18" in size and is unparged brick. The mortar is sound. I'm planning on getting a Crane 404 in the very near future for the fireplace opening above on the first floor. I removed the damper from the fireplace and looked up the flue with a good halogen light yesterday. The flue looks great. It looks like it has been completely parged with mortar. Though I'm still confused about the flue in the basement and where it resides overall in the chimney. I don't see any signs of that flue opening when looking up through the fireplace opening. I can see old ceramic thimbles where openings were once there, but no signs of the "jogged" flue opening. Maybe there is another flue running up the side of the main flue?? I'm going to have someone come over and take a look at it. The 44 seems to have ran pretty good though, I think. Although my draft was pretty low at .1. In any event your post seems to confirm my gut feeling that I wasn't doing anything too risky (even though I wasn't meeting code). For example with coal there is NO creosote, and with a CO detector, what could possibly go wrong. I now feel ok about all of this. Now its about learning how to use coal and the stove(s) properly so I can get good heat. I think I learned my first lesson this morning. I checked the 44 this morning after waking and noticed a nice bed of coals. I thought wow this great, all I have to do is shake and fill with new coal. WRONG! After filling the stove with coal to the top of the fire brick, the fire eventually went out. What I think I should have done is slowly added coal making sure that what I had added actually started burning. Anyway I'm looking forward to having a warmer house this winter and much lowered oil consumption.
Alfred
 

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: Alfred On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:43 am

just peter wrote:never ever use a power vent chimney on a coal stove.
If you experience a power faillure, the stove will burn for hours and will not venting well.
So with these systems you will live till the next power outage.
My two cents.

Peter.


Never considered that - thanks.
Alfred
 

Re: Unlined Chimney

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:41 am

Did you read "The Coal Burner's Almanac" yet?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy