Amount of ash on grates

Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: TAMNOZ On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:30 pm

I just saw a post from a newbie a couple of days ago and one of the more experienced posters asked how much ash was on the grate. He had stated that there should only be 1-2 inches of ash on the grate of a Keystoker. This is my fourth winter with my Keystoker and I noticed that I have more like 3-4 inches of ash. If this is to much what adjustment do I make to correct this?
Thanks
Jim
TAMNOZ
 
Stove/Furnace Make: KEYSTOKER soon
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:35 pm

TAMNOZ wrote:I just saw a post from a newbie a couple of days ago and one of the more experienced posters asked how much ash was on the grate. He had stated that there should only be 1-2 inches of ash on the grate of a Keystoker. This is my fourth winter with my Keystoker and I noticed that I have more like 3-4 inches of ash. If this is to much what adjustment do I make to correct this?
Thanks
Jim


Adjust feed rate to get more coal on grate. Proper feed will give 1-2 in of dead ash prior to falling in pan. Adjustments should be made when stove will run on demand for approx 1 hour... Small adjustments ;)
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:50 pm

TAMNOZ wrote:I just saw a post from a newbie a couple of days ago and one of the more experienced posters asked how much ash was on the grate. He had stated that there should only be 1-2 inches of ash on the grate of a Keystoker. This is my fourth winter with my Keystoker and I noticed that I have more like 3-4 inches of ash. If this is to much what adjustment do I make to correct this?
Thanks
Jim


If you are plenty warm throughout the heating season you need do nothing. Just means you get the job done with less capacity of what the Keystoker is capable of.
Sure beats being maxed out and still cold. ;)

As far as users being told to run ash to within 1" of end of grate...that is always a rule for initial setup/calibration when using a Coal Trol on the stove.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

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Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:05 pm

My vote would be to reduce the air slightly. AFAIK the reason for the guidance regarding the size of the ash band is to ensure that only the air needed for combustion at any given feed rate is introduced. Air that blows through dead ash is not needed for combustion, and serves only to cool the combustion chamber and send heat up the chimney. If the unit does not carry the load with a proper ash band, the feed and air should be increased in amounts that maintain the ash band.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:26 pm

IME running keystoker aggressively gives the best performance. I can turn feed rate back and still keep house warm but there's a downside to it. Smaller hot burning coal fire that doesn't get a complete burn out of coal. Coal consumption is more due to longer stoke time to reach temps for demand. I've tried many different ways to save coal and get a complete burn and found out the rabbit will beat the turtle every time. I've got 2 in of dead ash during decent call for heat.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:47 pm

I would agree that up to a point running hard may produce a better quality of burn. The OP didn't say anything about low heat or unburned coal; I suggested cutting the air in response to the suggestion of making no change. AFAIK even without changing the feed, cutting the air to get the right ash band can also improve combustion by increasing temps in the combustion area.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:11 pm

In my case I have to cut the air to keep the fumes in the chimney, instead of out the hopper ... :lol:

I have anywhere from 1/2" to 5" of ash ... depending on what it feels like running at. Still warm in here, so as long as no embers play "Niagra Falls in a barrel", I'm good. ;)
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: oliver power On: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:50 pm

When doing original set up, and running hard, "I" set up my Kaa-2 stoker to run one inch of ash at the end of the grate. Keystoker says (while no demand for heat) fire should shrink to about three inches, with about three inches of fresh coal above fire. Now, very seldom do I see one inch of ash on my grate. Most of the time I see 2, 3, 4, or 5 inches. However, should my kaa2 need to run flat out, I know it's properly set up to do so, without pushing fire off the end of the grate. This is done with stoker feed rate ajustment, not air adjustment. Air adjustment is done using manometer, draft gauge, etc.. Oliver EDIT: Last night I replied to this post by memory. I read my owner's manual just now (older version), and realized I misspoke. Above reply has been corrected. My manual (older version) says nothing about ash at the end of grate. Apparently the newer manual does. The important thing is not to push fire off the grate when running hard. I also had the newer version of owner's manual, but gave it away to someone else who was installing a Keystoker boiler.
Last edited by oliver power on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:22 am

The Keystoker K2/K6 manual says 2" of ash, and says the air inlet must be closed enough to make sure the specified draft can be achieved with the baro closed. I don't see any place where it says the air inlet can't be closed more than that, or that a manometer would be required to do so.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: TAMNOZ On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:46 am

I seem to be getting complete burn and the house seems to be warm everywhere, with that said I guess it could always be a little warmer.
Thanks Jim
TAMNOZ
 
Stove/Furnace Make: KEYSTOKER soon
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:02 am

Each stove can be a little different. If the stove is heating to your needs and you have more than 1" or so of ash, should be fine. Some of us like to tweak the stove and get max output and adjust to get the max heat out. So, 1" of ash or less it getting more hot coals on the grate and maybe just a few more BTU's out of the stove.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: Wiz On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:14 am

Pacowy wrote:I would agree that up to a point running hard may produce a better quality of burn. The OP didn't say anything about low heat or unburned coal; I suggested cutting the air in response to the suggestion of making no change. AFAIK even without changing the feed, cutting the air to get the right ash band can also improve combustion by increasing temps in the combustion area.

Mike


Yes OP ask the question of dead ash. In answering the dead ash for a (keystoker unit). you'll never see 2 inch of dead ash by merely adding draft by secondary blower or stoker shutter. The less feed rate the more dead ash no matter if stoker shutter is open all the way or partial closed. (Page 3) insert draft gauge to check draft.............. After ONE hour grate should have 2 inches of dead ash before falling into tub. Personally I would setup keystoker correctly instead of running it lean from my experience as stated in first reply
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:18 am

Pacowy wrote:The Keystoker K2/K6 manual says 2" of ash, and says the air inlet must be closed enough to make sure the specified draft can be achieved with the baro closed. I don't see any place where it says the air inlet can't be closed more than that, or that a manometer would be required to do so.


mike...how do they expect you to know where to set the air inlet to get the specified draft without a manometer? are you able to trust the accuracy of the marks on your baro scale and can you tell exactly where the weight is set with respect to the marks on yours?

i can't tell exactly where my weight lines up with the marks and also since mine is in a bullhead location i think it throws off its accuracy from those marks somewhat so i need the manometer to set it properly. the harman manual says to use a draft gauge when setting up the stove but it also says it doesn't expect the user to have one so it should be set up by a pro that would have the equipment.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: oliver power On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:17 am

Pacowy wrote:The Keystoker K2/K6 manual says 2" of ash, and says the air inlet must be closed enough to make sure the specified draft can be achieved with the baro closed. I don't see any place where it says the air inlet can't be closed more than that, or that a manometer would be required to do so.

Mike
Thanks Mike.... I corrected my above reply. Oliver
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: Amount of ash on grates

PostBy: mattcoalburner On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:28 am

you do not need 1-2" of ash, why burn more coal and have waste if your running at the temperature you want. the recommendation of 1-2" is more so people are not pushing unburnt coal off the edge of the grate.
mattcoalburner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading Juniata

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