Alaska 140 hopper stink?

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:52 pm

Leadslingingdaddy wrote:Don,

I too have the 140 but I run only one side currently,....The one closest to the door is running at about 75% and keeping the bottom living area of the 4400 sqft home at a nice 73 degrees..with the basement at about 80...

I unplugged the combustion fan motor and feed motor and placed insulation in the opening to keep hot air from escaping back out.

If the hopper is low or the fire is getting close to the rear of the feed tray you will get a smell also...I had to take my pipes all apart and vacuum them out from all the fly ash that had settled in it...

Previous owner must have never cleaned it out since the 8" piping was about 75% blocked.



I have been running only the rear burner and leaving a big coal pyle over the front burner in the hopper. I figured the rear burner wouldn't pit the glass as much as the front. I have the combustion blower and the feeder unplugged on the front burner.
Wow! Leadslingingdaddy, 8 inch pipe, clogged! I hope you have some good CO detectors.
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:11 pm

btrowe1 wrote:I also have a 140, I had the same back up issue as you.One time at -27,i shut down and left the house. I found the burn output overwhelmed my manual draft chimney. I needed to do the following when burning both the stokers.

#1 Turn down the hi feed setting, using both stokers burns 4 times as much coal as before. only go up to say setting 4 or 5 MAX..

#2 Calibrate your baro for both operations single stoker and double, write down on or near the stove the setting for running with both stokers,

I found my setting is fully closed, doesn't matter what the reading on the manometer the fumes still came back in till I found the correct adjustment with a Hi fire burning,that was totally closed, yup heat goes up the chimney,but a large amount is produced, I also found that my distribution blower runs almost constantly when burning both stokers as the dist. fan controller stays in the run temperature all the time. To heck with resetting that, opens up a whole nother can of worms,took 7 years to get it where it is and I'm happy where it is,

Also i only light my 2nd stoker if the temp is going to be below -20. The single stoker can handle till about then by turning the feed rate to 7 or 8, any higher the coal is falling off the grate at full burn. it really burns A LOT on that setting..

good luck, takes awhile to figure out but that's the neat thing I have found out about coal burning always a new thing to try.

btrowe1,

That's very interesting, using both burners uses 4 times the coal. your single burner HI feed rate sounds about the same as mine, 7 starts pushing lit coal off, I keep it at about 6. So I guess running both burners at 4 would be a good place to start. After I get the draft set.
As far as the distrobution blower goes, I think the blower switch should be mounted above the front of the furnace, it's warmer there. mine is curently mounted in back, not as much temp differetial there.

Thank you,

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Leadslingingdaddy On: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:12 am

"Also i only light my 2nd stoker if the temp is going to be below -20. The single stoker can handle till about then by turning the feed rate to 7 or 8, any higher the coal is falling off the grate at full burn. it really burns A LOT on that setting"..

My feed rate control is 0-5 settings...

Yes they do burn ALOT of coal at throttle!!!

I am looking for a 110v t-stat that I can cycle my distro fan on and off say cool at 140 and heat at110 and turn my feed rate down....Always looking for little ways to get the most out of it.
Leadslingingdaddy
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Dual Stoker 140
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: 140 Dual Feed

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:41 pm

Well,

I just ordered a Dwyer Mark II Model 25 manometer, 44 bucks on ebay, shipping included. I should be here next Monday, gaskets should be here before the weekend.
I guess I will replace the gaskets in the questionable burner this weekend, then try it out. If everything goes right, I should be able to check the draft on Monday night.

I will keep you posted.

Again, I would like to thank eveyone for there thoughts and advise on this problem.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: btrowe1 On: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Okay, 140 settings on mine, remember 8 years old but feed control looks just like the one pictured, Hi setting is kept at 4, I adjust this as it gets colder/warmer outside.I only move it as high as 7 after that coal seems to be falling off the grate still burning. Low setting is set at 1 for idle, Too low out it goes, again another live and learn thing.
If doing your settings you need to watch this as you are setting it. The instruction manual has you disconnect the wires to the thermostat and leave them open to set your low setting (not asking for heat)then putting them together to achieve a high setting,(asking for it to crank) then connecting back to the thermostat.You can also do it with the unit running normally just turn your thermostat off and then on.Just don't go, too low on your low setting with out watching or it will go out, takes about 20 minutes to reach the levels you have selected.

I have mine on a programable thermostat, deep winter I just place the setting on HOLD.

Distruibition fan control I have came with the unit. it mounts into the hot air box at the top, i needed to drill a hole to mount it, it is 120v type control. turns on at the selected setting and goes off after dropping below,has a MAX temp setting also took along time to figure out the correct set points. years actually.. I adjusted off of the factory set points.

4 times as much coal, yup, figure your using 1 stoker set at 1 on low and then 4 on High, well light up the 2nd you now have 2 cranking, turn up the heat and you go to 2 on idle and basically 8 on hi,your using double the coal amounts if not 4 times your original setting. pumping lots of heat and LOT's of co2. sometimes with out power vent your chimney can not handle to overload. I do not have a power vent thus i need to do some resetting of the settings, (yeah brain buster)
Last edited by btrowe1 on Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
btrowe1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska stoker 140 Coal
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska stove

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: btrowe1 On: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:50 pm

I'm heating 1578 feet plus basement push it to around 3000 ft, I keep house tstat set at 67, but when in programable it jumps from 60 /62 at night to 65 67 when we're in the house, usually takes an hour or so to warm up to 66,67.
btrowe1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska stoker 140 Coal
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska stove

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Leadslingingdaddy On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:45 am

"Wow! Leadslingingdaddy, 8 inch pipe, clogged! I hope you have some good CO detectors."

Yes, I have 2 of them and I shut it down as soon as i smell the sulphur....Thanks to the site here I knew what to look for...

Don, are you going to get one for the fire box also?? If so where do you plan on drilling the box for the probe? I was looking mine over to get an idea...
Leadslingingdaddy
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Dual Stoker 140
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: 140 Dual Feed

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:19 pm

Well Leadslingingdaddy, from what I remember earlyer in this thread, over fire has to be checked as well as the chimney draft. I guess that means you checking to see if the firebox is getting presurized at full burn. On my 140 there is a big bolt in the flue side plate just above and in back of the flue, I think I will conect the draft meter there.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Pauliewog On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:38 pm

Don

If your stove is close in design to my 140 dual feed that is probably the same hole I used to check my over fire settings .


The hole on my stove is located above and to the right of the flue and measuring from the floor it would put it about 6" above the top of the ash door.
My furnace has an over temp / fume safety switch mounted in this hole

in the event of a positive firebox pressure this switch cuts all of the power to the furnace.

Paul
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Pauliewog
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Anthracite

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:11 pm

I have the exact same stoker mechanism in my custom built boiler, and I get the same problem - stink and CO out the hopper. If your getting stink out the hopper, it's a pretty sure bet the firebox is pressurized.

I fixed this sort of half assed ... but had no other choices .. much like my chimney connector pipe layout, which is causing the poor draft.

First I completely blocked the baro with a plastic bag. I suggest foil for this if you decide to go that route. The next thing I did was restrict combustion air with a piece of paper. I experimented with different sizes, all while watching the fire and smelling the hopper. I finally came up with a size that works well in warmer temps, but in colder temps I need to fold 1/4 of the paper. Been working great, and no CO alarms since.

I'm going to construct a slide out of sheet metal to bolt on the blower screen when time permits as a more permanent solution.

Image
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Leadslingingdaddy On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:11 am

Paul,

Can you elaborate more on the over pressure/fire switch?

My 140 has a variable speed switch for the Disto fan would it also contain a temp switch?

Thanks
Leadslingingdaddy
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Dual Stoker 140
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: 140 Dual Feed

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Pauliewog On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:49 am

Leadslingingdaddy wrote:Paul,

Can you elaborate more on the over pressure/fire switch?

My 140 has a variable speed switch for the Disto fan would it also contain a temp switch?

Thanks


Leadslinger,

Yes , you have an over temp switch built into the temperature probe that controls your variable speed distribution blower. That probe is mounted sometimes in the plenum of like the first picture of mine on the top rear corner in between the firebox and the outer wall of the furnace.
This switch cuts the power also on over temp but restores power when the stove cools down below the set point. This is usually activated when there is a problem with your distribution blower .

The over temp/ fume switch I'm referring to is on the opposite side above and to the right of the flue exit. There is a tube approx 3/8" in diameter that enters the firebox. The other two pictures are of this safety switch with cover on and off.

On a positive firebox pressure condition or extreme over temp.the flue gas exits the tube and activates this control. The sensor is actually a thermal circuit breaker and will not restore power to the stove until it is manually reset.

In the event my chimney is blocked, draft conditions drastically change, or an installation where the power vent malfunctions, this is a nice feature to have.

Paul
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Pauliewog
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Anthracite

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Leadslingingdaddy On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:13 pm

Thanks for the 411 Paul...I dont think I have the probe or other electrical connections that you speak of. I have a dial that controls on/off and speed...all on of off though ....not automatic...

I have two coal feed controls also....

I will take some pics of my setup and start a different thread as I do not want to take over the original content here...

Can you tell us what that large box covering the DIsto fan does does? Cold Air Return capture???
Leadslingingdaddy
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Dual Stoker 140
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: 140 Dual Feed

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Pauliewog On: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:06 pm

Leadslinger,
The box was made by a friend at a local sheet metal shop. It has a primary air filter on the end and a slot for my secondary filter.
Good idea on starting another thread ..... Might title it something like Alaska 140 add mods or options.
P M me with the link and I'll post some pics of the return filter box and my cell phone alarm system in progress ..lol

Paul
Pauliewog
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Anthracite

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:57 pm

OK, I'm still alive, not overcome by CO. I think I have veryfied that this is a draft problem, not a grate gasket problem. Friday morning I lit the front burner and unplugged the back burner. The 140 ran on the front burner the same way it ran on the back burner, no hopper stink, no CO alarm.
Then, friday after lunch I lit the back burner and had both running. I followed Pauliewog's advice on the timer settings, HI=4, LOW=1.5. I also weighted the baro so that it would not open. I also set the "Varispeed" to about 1 O'clock instead of cranked up all the way. The Varispeed in my 140 controls the combustion blowers not the distrobution blower.
I ran it all weekend like that and had no hopper stink or any other problems. Even with the timers and combustion blowers turned down like that it still puts out a lot of heat!
I got the Dywer Mark 2 in the mail, now I just need some time to hook it up!

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Visit Lehigh Anthracite