Alaska 140 hopper stink?

Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:08 pm

Hi all,

I fired up my "new to me" Alaska 140 Dual feeder a few weeks ago. I only fired the rear burner because the one 85Kbtu burner is all I realy need to heat my 1400sq ft ranch. The 140 has been running fine, with no issues for the passed few weeks. This morning I fired up the front burned also. I wanted to see if this furnace would work any better with both burners running or not. A few hours later, I came back in the house and noticed a sulffer smell. I went down stairs to the 140, opened the hopper and it had a stink coming out of it, not very strong, but a stink. I openned the door and both burners were firing normal, blue flames on the unlit coal travelling out away from the hopper, NOT tward it. So, I went back outside to finish up some work. About2 hours later, after coming back inside, the CO detector in the hallway one the first floor started going off, the one in the basement ( were the furnace is) did not go off. So I opened the windows, went down stairs and unplugged the front burner.
Now, 3 hours later, everything is fine, burning on the rear burner only again. This is a later model 140 the the paddel feeder not the carpet feeder. I am assuming that the front burner needs strongback gasket, I just ordered 2 from Jono Ace Hardware on ebay.
I have never taken the grate off of a paddel feeder, is replacing the gaskets the same as a carpet feeder?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and advise,

Don
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StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:32 pm

You need to check your draft and set your baro damper correctly for full burn !! if your CO detector was going off, sounds like you don't have enough draft and the exhaust is not being sucked out good enough when both burners are on.

what's your draft and baro damper set at?

I was also gonna say to check ALL the gaskets, make sure everything is cleaned, sealed, etc....
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:48 pm

Thanks for the quick reply WNY.

I guess I will be ordering one of those Mano-Drafty-Thingys Too. I've installed quite a few stoves and furnaces, I never needed one before, but I guess thats the only way to know what the draft realy is?

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:54 pm

Exactly! Which baro damper are you using? You can't go by the setting on it, a draft gauge (Manometer) is the only way to set it accurately at full burns.

how much is it open/closed when running? 1 or 2 burners. how tall is your chimney?

you might just have enough draft setting for the 1 burner, then when you fire up the 2nd one, the draft isn't quite enough to pull all the fumes out and it leaks a bit into the house.
If the baro is wide open when running, either you have too much draft or it's not set correctly. when it closed more, you draw more draft from the stove.

I run 2 stoves and have the manometers permanently mounted on both so I can monitor the draft and adjust and/or clean them when needed.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:20 pm

1) It's a 6" Feild Controls type RC.

2) It opens about 1/4 of it's total travel with 1 burner at full burn. I didn't notice what the baro was doing when both burners were running.

3) The 140 is a 6" bottom vent. About 6 feet from the bottom vent to the thimble, baro is about 1 foot from the bottom. Outside is 12 feet of duble wall 6" stainless. Total about 16 feet.

So, you think the strongback is not the problem?

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:51 pm

With 2 burners running the fire box is going slightly positive pressure due to the combustion air being added for the second burner.
The manometer will show this. :)
You see, if more air blows in than is drafted out the excess looks for the path out of least resistance...in this case out thru the hopper.

After getting the barometer set for 2 burners, things should be okay.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:20 pm

OK, Manometer it is. once I get one I will post the results.

Thank you WNY and McGiever.

Wait,,, So I guess you drill a hole somewhere in your flue pipe to attach this manometer. Where is a good spot?
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StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:27 pm

Your chimney is a marginal height for this application, you might have to cut back the combustion air for both burners to keep the firebox negative.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Pauliewog On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:51 am

On my 140 dual feed, both combustion blowers run at the same time even if only the front or rear burner is lit.
I take my manometer reading a few inches from the exhaust outlet just below the Barometric Damper.
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Pauliewog
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Anthracite

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: WNY On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:37 am

I would put the tap for the draft gauge in the straight section before the TEE between the stove and the TEE. Was there a reason for mounting the baro facing the stove instead of to the side for easy access? It doesn't really matter, just asking.

I would have mounted the baro damper up a bit higher in the next section, so it's in a straight run, may not affect it much.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:59 am

Pauliewog wrote:On my 140 dual feed, both combustion blowers run at the same time even if only the front or rear burner is lit.
I take my manometer reading a few inches from the exhaust outlet just below the Barometric Damper.


Question, Do both blowers run even if one of the burners is unplugged.

And BTW , The manometer readings need taken in 2 locations on stokers, outside stove before the barometer and inside stove or "over the fire", near stove door.
Even w/ only 1 burner it is possible to blow more air in than draft setting at barometer can allow removal of , and in that condition you may have slight positive pressure and stove fumes leaking.
Stokers w/ their blowers need set up w/ a manometer more so for CO saftey than for heating performance...add a second blower/burner, and it's even more so.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Leadslingingdaddy On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:04 am

Don,

I too have the 140 but I run only one side currently,....The one closest to the door is running at about 75% and keeping the bottom living area of the 4400 sqft home at a nice 73 degrees..with the basement at about 80...

I unplugged the combustion fan motor and feed motor and placed insulation in the opening to keep hot air from escaping back out.

If the hopper is low or the fire is getting close to the rear of the feed tray you will get a smell also...I had to take my pipes all apart and vacuum them out from all the fly ash that had settled in it...

Previous owner must have never cleaned it out since the 8" piping was about 75% blocked.
Leadslingingdaddy
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Dual Stoker 140
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: 140 Dual Feed

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: Pauliewog On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:56 pm

McGiever wrote:
Pauliewog wrote:On my 140 dual feed, both combustion blowers run at the same time even if only the front or rear burner is lit.
I take my manometer reading a few inches from the exhaust outlet just below the Barometric Damper.


Question, Do both blowers run even if one of the burners is unplugged.

And BTW , The manometer readings need taken in 2 locations on stokers, outside stove before the barometer and inside stove or "over the fire", near stove door.
Even w/ only 1 burner it is possible to blow more air in than draft setting at barometer can allow removal of , and in that condition you may have slight positive pressure and stove fumes leaking.
Stokers w/ their blowers need set up w/ a manometer more so for CO saftey than for heating performance...add a second blower/burner, and it's even more so.


McGiever,
I'm glad you posted that question. I am heating approximately 3,400 Sq ft on three levels. 90% of the time I keep both burners lit up on low idle. The few times I cut it back to one burner I just unplugged the front feeder from the thermostat control box leaving the combustion fan running. You got me thinking so I called the manufacturer today. They told me to disconnect the combustion blower also that there was no need to run it. Thanks!

when I purchased the furnace it was equipped with a fume / over temperature safety switch for use with a power vent. I replaced our 30 year old coal coal hand fire with the 140 stoker utilizing our flue lined masonry chimney.
When I first set up the Barometric Damper I used the port from the over temperature safety switch for my "over fire" readings. This tube is located on the side of the firebox approx.6" above the ash door.

I just disconnected the front feeder and combustion blower about an hour ago and checked the draft. It fluctuates between -.03 and -.04 as per manufacturer recommendation.

Two Co 2 alarms..... I totally agree, You can't be too safe.

Thanks again for your input !
Pauliewog
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Anthracite

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: StokerDon On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:39 pm

WNY wrote:I would put the tap for the draft gauge in the straight section before the TEE between the stove and the TEE. Was there a reason for mounting the baro facing the stove instead of to the side for easy access? It doesn't really matter, just asking.

I would have mounted the baro damper up a bit higher in the next section, so it's in a straight run, may not affect it much.

This is my first time using the "quote" feature, hope I get it right!
WNY,
The vertical pipe is on a bit of an angle so the baro must face the furnace or the wall.

It might be a good idea to move the baro up the pipe a bit. I was just down there looking at it and I realized that the baro is fairly close to the air filter on the distrbution blower, that can't be good.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Alaska 140 hopper stink?

PostBy: btrowe1 On: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:52 pm

I also have a 140, I had the same back up issue as you.One time at -27,i shut down and left the house. I found the burn output overwhelmed my manual draft chimney. I needed to do the following when burning both the stokers.

#1 Turn down the hi feed setting, using both stokers burns 4 times as much coal as before. only go up to say setting 4 or 5 MAX..

#2 Calibrate your baro for both operations single stoker and double, write down on or near the stove the setting for running with both stokers,

I found my setting is fully closed, doesn't matter what the reading on the manometer the fumes still came back in till I found the correct adjustment with a Hi fire burning,that was totally closed, yup heat goes up the chimney,but a large amount is produced, I also found that my distribution blower runs almost constantly when burning both stokers as the dist. fan controller stays in the run temperature all the time. To heck with resetting that, opens up a whole nother can of worms,took 7 years to get it where it is and I'm happy where it is,

Also i only light my 2nd stoker if the temp is going to be below -20. The single stoker can handle till about then by turning the feed rate to 7 or 8, any higher the coal is falling off the grate at full burn. it really burns A LOT on that setting..

good luck, takes awhile to figure out but that's the neat thing I have found out about coal burning always a new thing to try.
btrowe1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska stoker 140 Coal
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska stove

Visit Lehigh Anthracite