Menometer Question

 
n0useforaname
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Post by n0useforaname » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 7:59 am

So I came on here wanting to swap my Harman Mark II for a Stoker.. and found that I've been firing the Mark II a bit wrong.. I was fixing it three times a day and constantly messing with it.. Now that I got some good advice, it's been running 12 hours a clip and keeping my house consistently warm. Now here are some things I want to clear up and figure out.. I got a Dwyer menometer and plan on installing it, but where exactly does this go? I've seen guys install it an inch away from the furnace, and I've seen guys install it a foot or two away.. whats the right place? Also, what numbers should I be looking for on it? I'm assuming after it's installed I can control the draft by the screw on the ash door, but don't know where I want it to be at. Also.. I had people tell me I need a barometer.. but I don't see why. My fire never burns too fast or too hot, not even in negative weather.. only time I have a problem is in warm weather, which all that thing will do is close.. which is what I have now, so I don't understand why people are telling me to get one. So any menometer help? And yes, I did search.. this forum and google, which got me to purchasing the proper menometer, but I can't really find a solid answer for the two things above. Thanks!


 
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Post by michaelanthony » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 8:39 am

You bought the manometer, so search "manometer install" or "where to install manometer" and decide if you want to measure the draft in you flue pipe or the draft in you appliance. I have read much on this and many folks recommend installing the manometer after the breech of the stove.
Everything you asked is debatable and piece of mind, where do you want to start?

 
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Post by n0useforaname » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 9:51 am

Well in that case, I'd prefer to hook it up right after the bend in the flue pipe (about a foot away from the stove). I did look at how people used copper/etc.. and hooked it up, but every pic was different. So my next question is.. how do I figure out what reading I'm supposed to get? I was told to monitor the reading to make sure my CO levels are not seeping in the house.. but in all the searching I've done, people seem to argue between .02-.05.. so maybe just shoot for .03-.04 and I'll be good? Also... I've seen people say hook to the High side only, and low side only.. Any advice there?

 
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Post by SMITTY » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 10:13 am

The Harman manual recommends .06" minimum draft ... but in my experience, this is big-time overkill. I've run mine at .03"-.04" without a problem - basically as long as it never goes to ZERO or NEGATIVE (meaning reversed chimney flow), your good. The thing with the lower draft numbers is, it will take MUCH longer to revive an old fire when it's time to shake and reload. The more draft, the faster the fresh coal catches. By the same token, the more draft, the faster the fire burns for any given dial (air) setting. So if your used to 1.5 turns out on the dial at .03" draft, then, if the draft were to go to .06", the stove will be MUCH hotter, and require shaking down sooner.

All a manometer does is tell you how much draft the chimney is pulling. I would put the port as far away from the stove's exit (just for heat reasons - if using copper, it doesn't matter), and closest to the chimney .. BUT, install it BEFORE the baro (between baro and stove) - that way your measuring the draft of the stove (which is what you really want), and not the "corrected" draft of the barometric damper. The main reason for the barometric damper is so that when you get big wind gusts, it pulls air thru the baro, instead of through your stove. Remember what I just said about your air setting and draft? When you get a wind gust that creates a draft of .10" or higher, that same dial setting is going to draw MUCH more air through the fire, making it burn hotter, plus, sending more heat up the chimney & burning up the coal faster.

Hope I didn't confuse you more with all this! :D

 
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 10:51 am

I will second Smitty's advise. The place for taking the reading you mentioned is good too. Flue pipe, about a foot or two away from the appliance. There is a particular sequence of devices that need to be followed to get an accurate reading. It should go
Stove→Manometer Probe→Manual Pipe Damper→Barometric Damper→Chimney

Most people run them "backwards" so that the negative value is read on the positive side on the scale. Note where I have the tube coming off the mano. Leave the other port open.

I used a piece of brake line that's connected to the hose. Drill a hole just slightly larger than the brake line. Insert the brake line about an inch into the pipe. By keeping it unsecured, It's easy to pull it out for calibration of the gauge and to check for blockage. Anywhere between -.02 and -.04 is prime :D

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Post by JohnB » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 11:29 am

So the .02-.04 numbers you guys say are ideal are the "minimum" draft numbers? These would be the readings you see when the MPD is closed & the stove is basically idling??

I just installed a Dwyer #25 to monitor the draft on my Hitzer 50-93 so I'm new to this. My minimum draft reading is never lower then .04 when the MPD is closed & stove idling(front air shut & rear flap down).If I open the MPD at while idling the reading climbs to .08. With the rear air intake open some & MPD still closed it climbs up to .08. Open the MPD at that point & it climbs to .13. Normal cold weather, no winds. How do these readings sound?

Here's a photo of my installation:
Manometer Install 003.JPG
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I should add that with the MPD closed I'll typically see a 180*F flue pipe temp with a 400*F stove temp.

 
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Post by freetown fred » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 11:32 am

They're fine on your 50-93--how's she burnin JB? What's been your usage on those cold days?


 
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 11:36 am

Nice install! I hold mine steady at -.03 with the use of a manual damper and barometric together. On warm days it's normal for me to see -.01 to -.02

The trouble with running an aggressive draft is that uncontrolled secondary air will carry more heat out the chimney than needed.

 
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Post by JohnB » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 11:48 am

freetown fred wrote:They're fine on your 50-93--how's she burnin JB? What's been your usage on those cold days?
She burns great as long as I get the shake down right. Still perfecting my technique there but I'm getting better. I did add a top bolt to the shaker handle so hopefully it won't loosen up again. I haven't kept a real close watch on consumption but 3 40lb bags seems to last 2.5-3 days.

 
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Post by JohnB » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 11:52 am

Lightning wrote:The trouble with running an aggressive draft is that uncontrolled secondary air will carry more heat out the chimney than needed.
The secondary air would be the ash door air vents? If so I find these pretty much useless on my 50-93. The fire recovers faster after a shake down using the rear air intake only then if I open both the front & rear. Bottom line is the ash door air intakes stay closed.

 
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Post by n0useforaname » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 11:54 am

I'm gonna hook mine up and try to see how much my readings fluctuate.. Try my best to keep them around .04. I've had a couple people in the area and a fireplace shop say I have no need for a damper at all with how my house is setup. My house is always a consistent 72-75 degrees, which is perfect for us.. I was just sick of fixing the fire 3 times a day.. and now I'm only fixing it twice which is lovely. So I'll do some fine tuning and see what happens. Thanks!

 
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 12:02 pm

JohnB wrote:
Lightning wrote:The trouble with running an aggressive draft is that uncontrolled secondary air will carry more heat out the chimney than needed.
The secondary air would be the ash door air vents? If so I find these pretty much useless on my 50-93. The fire recovers faster after a shake down using the rear air intake only then if I open both the front & rear. Bottom line is the ash door air intakes stay closed.
No sir, ash door vents would be primary air. I believe you have an automatic damper for primary air on yours

Primary air feeds in under the coal bed and goes up thru the grates to feed the fire.

Secondary air is air fed in over the top of the coal bed. Many times it's part of an air wash for the glass and has no way of regulating it.

 
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Post by WNY » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 12:19 pm

You want to measure the DRAFT on the stove itself, as long as you are close to the stove (apporx 18" or less) with your Manometer Tubing Tap, you should be good. It's NOT an exact science, sometimes its the only place you can mount it type of mounting (closer or farther away).
My stove has a direct vent on the back, I actually drilled a hole in the side of stove/firebox to measure the draft on the stove itself.

Many of us put some type of Brass (or stainless) fitting into the pipe (so the rubber tubing doesn't melt) and a short piece of copper or metal brake line tubing, as not to melt the rubber hose that comes with the Manometer.

Scroll thru the Thread, it'll show you many of our installs.
Manometer Install

Depending on HOW you want to READ your manometer, determines Which Port Hi/lo to hook it up. Most of us hook it up backwards to read to the RIGHT of the scale, BUT we all know it's VACUUM/draft it's reading, and NOT a positive pressure.

 
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Post by JohnB » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 12:27 pm

Lightning wrote:No sir, ash door vents would be primary air. I believe you have an automatic damper for primary air on yours
Secondary air is air fed in over the top of the coal bed. Many times it's part of an air wash for the glass and has no way of regulating it.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. If the Hitzer has an air wash for the glass panel it isn't working! :lol: Ash wipes off easily with a cloth though. With firebricks packed with ash all around the inside I'm not sure how secondary air would get up top in the 50-93.

With a 400* stove temp at idle what do you guys typically see for flue temps? Half or less?

 
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Dec. 04, 2013 2:32 pm

JohnB wrote: Ok, thanks for clearing that up. If the Hitzer has an air wash for the glass panel it isn't working! :lol: Ash wipes off easily with a cloth though. With firebricks packed with ash all around the inside I'm not sure how secondary air would get up top in the 50-93.
Yeah, I'm not sure if the Hitzers have an air wash for the glass and I don't know if they offer a way for secondary air to get in :lol:


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