Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:22 pm

It took a while but I managed to get a few snapshots of the heated secondary air ring in the Glenwood doing its thing. You see it looks like the jets from a gas burner on a stove. I thought you might find this interesting to look at.
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Secondary over fire air in a Glenwood Base Heater
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Another photo of how secondary air works in a Glenwood Base Heater
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wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: dlj On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:25 pm

wsherrick wrote:It took a while but I managed to get a few snapshots of the heated secondary air ring in the Glenwood doing its thing. You see it looks like the jets from a gas burner on a stove. I thought you might find this interesting to look at.


William, Nice photos! Now that must have been difficult to do! OK, so next year I have to remove the ceramic lining in that location of my Glenwood and re-install that ring... I'm going to have to re-do the ceramic anyway as it looks like this year it's on it's last legs...

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:58 pm

That's pretty slick William. Yeah, over 100 years ago, they sure knew a thing or two about burning coal didn't they ?

Makes me think about somehow incorporating a steel secondary air tube into the top of my 118 firebrick when I get around to re-lining the pot. Or, passageways cast into the firebrick from a heated air source like the ash drawer ? Like that parlor stove with vertical channels cast into it, that I if I remember correctly, you posted about a week ago ?

Like the old say, "There's nothing new under the Sun." ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

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Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:06 pm

Nice pictures which dramatically show the advantage of having that ring.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: grumpy On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:15 pm

Will, were you burning wood or coal?

I had that going on last week in my 153, it was the whole ring too, very cool, it never happened before in all the years I have burned this stove..
grumpy
 

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:26 pm

This is coal. I never burn wood in this stove.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: coalcracker On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:15 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:That's pretty slick William. Yeah, over 100 years ago, they sure knew a thing or two about burning coal didn't they ?

Makes me think about somehow incorporating a steel secondary air tube into the top of my 118 firebrick when I get around to re-lining the pot. Or, passageways cast into the firebrick from a heated air source like the ash drawer ? Like that parlor stove with vertical channels cast into it, that I if I remember correctly, you posted about a week ago ?

Like the old say, "There's nothing new under the Sun." ;)

Paul



a coal fire will only produce enough gas to burn when a new load of coal is initially put on, once it begins to burn through, there's not enough methane gas produced to ignite. This usually occurs when the red coal level reaches the surface of the coal batch, there's not enough gas being produced to burn.

modern stoves with the fixed glass vents, burn off the methane in a similar fashion, across the top of the coal bed, until there's no gas left. You really don't need a secondary air metering tube- all you need is a fixed slit air vent in the front upper door, to feed constant air over the fire in a metered amount. It will light off and burn by itself as it rises off the fire.

With the Harman I when I get up at around 5-6 AM, and the house is still dark with no lights on, I can turn the main draft knob a 1/4 turn either way open and closed, and the blue gas flames on the coal fire will go up and down with the draft adjustment, just like a natural gas or propane kitchen stove will on the burners. It's kinda neat to watch, and it's amazing that draft knob has that kind of precise control. I was watching this phenom this morning and it never ceases to amaze me.
coalcracker
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Standard sealed hot water boiler, hand fed
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I Magnafire
Baseburners & Antiques: Lehigh Oak 18, Washington potbelly, Sears Roebuck parlor cabinet, PIttston 6 lid cook stove, vintage combo gas/coal cook stove 4 lid
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark I Magnafire

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:06 pm

There's very little methane in anthracite. It's carbon oxidizing into carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:10 pm

The big difference between just having air over the fire or having pre-heated fire over the air is that secondary air does more than just burn off hydrocarbons. As the fuel burns the carbon can be burned to carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide. Fuel burned to carbon dioxide is combusted in a much more complete manner than if just burned to Carbon Monoxide.
The heated secondary air provides the oxygen necessary to convert the CO to CO2. For this to happen the secondary air must be provided at as close to the combustion temperature of the gasses as possible. If just air is provided it is too cool to allow this and in fact impedes combustion by simply cooling off the combustion area. The gasses are then lost up the chimney, unused.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:18 pm

Nice photo William. I have never been able to take pictures of blue flame . they always come out looking white or orange. How do you get the right light to do that? So is that ring thing sorta like a catalytic disc on newer stoves, burning the exhaust gasses? Sorry for all the different questions :oops:
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:31 pm

coalcracker wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:That's pretty slick William. Yeah, over 100 years ago, they sure knew a thing or two about burning coal didn't they ?

Makes me think about somehow incorporating a steel secondary air tube into the top of my 118 firebrick when I get around to re-lining the pot. Or, passageways cast into the firebrick from a heated air source like the ash drawer ? Like that parlor stove with vertical channels cast into it, that I if I remember correctly, you posted about a week ago ?

Like the old say, "There's nothing new under the Sun." ;)

Paul



a coal fire will only produce enough gas to burn when a new load of coal is initially put on, once it begins to burn through, there's not enough methane gas produced to ignite. This usually occurs when the red coal level reaches the surface of the coal batch, there's not enough gas being produced to burn.

modern stoves with the fixed glass vents, burn off the methane in a similar fashion, across the top of the coal bed, until there's no gas left. You really don't need a secondary air metering tube- all you need is a fixed slit air vent in the front upper door, to feed constant air over the fire in a metered amount. It will light off and burn by itself as it rises off the fire.

With the Harman I when I get up at around 5-6 AM, and the house is still dark with no lights on, I can turn the main draft knob a 1/4 turn either way open and closed, and the blue gas flames on the coal fire will go up and down with the draft adjustment, just like a natural gas or propane kitchen stove will on the burners. It's kinda neat to watch, and it's amazing that draft knob has that kind of precise control. I was watching this phenom this morning and it never ceases to amaze me.


William,

The loading door on my 118 has the typical Glenwood rotary secondary air damper that feeds into a casting on the back side of the door with holes in a circular pattern. It helps pre-heat and disperse the air a bit more evenly over the coal bed as it's drawn toward the flue outlet. It would do similar to yours as far as burning off the volatiles, but it's just below the mica windows, not down at the edges of the firepot. I'm not sure any blue jet action could even be seen through the windows. And, it's certainly not as cooling looking as your base heater's ring of jets.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: nortcan On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:43 pm

Very intresting photos William. :idea:
Do these jet flames stay like on the photos for all the burning cycle , I mean all the time between the reloading?
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:56 pm

nortcan wrote:Very intresting photos William. :idea:
Do these jet flames stay like on the photos for all the burning cycle , I mean all the time between the reloading?


Yes, there are flames visible there throughout the entire cycle. When all the hydrocarbons are gone and I have the stove set to run about 450 -500 degrees, you can see an almost invisible, pale white flame coming out of them. The white flames are very long in length and they swirl around the inside of the stove. They sort of look like mythical salamanders that were once said to exist in fire.
I suspect the white flames is CO burning to CO2.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:02 pm

Nice pics!! 8-)

I used to see this effect (not quite on that scale though) through a gap in one of my firebricks in the Mark III. Was neat to watch.

I'd rather be watching that through the glass of a Glennwood though. Sweet unit you've got there. 8-)
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Photos of Heated Secondary Air Combustion in Glenwood.

PostBy: Tim On: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:56 am

Fantastic William!
Tim
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood
Stove/Furnace Model: Oak #30

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