Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

Re: Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

PostBy: fastcat On: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:57 pm

JOHNNYV your MPD does it have holes in it or is it solid?
fastcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
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Re: Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

PostBy: JohnnyV On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:01 pm

Sorry fastcat for the slow response time. It is solid, although doesn't completely close off (a little half moon area remains open).
JohnnyV
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 254
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Other Heating: Pellet stove far end of house
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Re: Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

PostBy: fastcat On: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:45 am

I'm not real sure here and hope someone with a little more experience chimes in but that mpd will need to be watched real close for backing up CO if it gets closed to far, I think most use the mpd with the holes which does the same thing but allows the co to be expelled with the mpd closed (90*). Also you may find that that mpd is slowing the draft and even with 450* stove you are not allowing max heat from the stove, you may have a real slow 450* fire going. Hope you can understand what I'm trying to say here seems hard to explain.
fastcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
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Re: Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:25 am

I keep seeing a variation of this in a lot of different posts.

"I regulate my MPD to keep heat in the stove and stop it from escaping up the chimney."

Every definition for an MPD I have been able to find is it is used for controlling the draft in a fuel burning appliance. Period
Dampers are defined as restrictions either manual or automatic operation used to slow down the flow of air, gas, products of combustion in a pipe, duct, or tube.

Not once did I find a definition of an MPD's purpose being to keep heat in a stove. Insulation does that, not an MPD.

Not looking to start a flame war just opening my damper and "venting" a bit. ;)

Rev. Larry
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
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Re: Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:10 am

blrman07 wrote:I keep seeing a variation of this in a lot of different posts.

"I regulate my MPD to keep heat in the stove and stop it from escaping up the chimney."

Every definition for an MPD I have been able to find is it is used for controlling the draft in a fuel burning appliance. Period
Dampers are defined as restrictions either manual or automatic operation used to slow down the flow of air, gas, products of combustion in a pipe, duct, or tube.

Not once did I find a definition of an MPD's purpose being to keep heat in a stove. Insulation does that, not an MPD.

Not looking to start a flame war just opening my damper and "venting" a bit. ;)

Rev. Larry


Using an MPD for "keeping the heat in" is an old expression. The earliest references I'm aware of, it appears in some of the operating manuals of early 1900's parlor and kitchen ranges.

I think this part of that definition is closer to the intent of that expression, "used to slow down the flow of air, gas, products of a combustion in a pipe, duct, or tube."

The old manuals used that expression to mean using a pipe damper to slow down the speed of the flue gases so they have more time to radiate out into the space being heated (or for cooking), for the amount of coal that was being burned. Not something that would need insulation.

And, I've seen that recommended in at least one general source about how to operate kitchen ranges. By using the MPD as a means to keep more heat in the stove, to raise oven temperatures if experiencing trouble getting the oven hot enough.

As I mentioned in another post, using an IR gun, I saw a rise in stove top temps with a drop in pipe temps when experimenting with MPD angles to see if it worked, and if so, is there a "sweet spot" angle. There is, but only with my stove in indirect mode - its about 35 degree MPD angle.

But, since it may not work for all types of stoves, I can see how it that would lead to being controversial.

BTW, love that last line of yours ! :D

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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Re: Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:18 pm

Where the MPDs really shine is on the stoves with poorer control over how much of the Primary and/or Secondary Air can leak in through the undesired and uncontrollable stove body gaps.
The MPD is the Last Chance of control being it is after the stove and before the chimney...LAST CHANCE.
If you have Control of your stove by other means...Then the MPD...last chance is not required. :)

Where required, a MPD is like a Throttle....nearer closed is slower/idle and as that Throttle is adjusted open so is the SPEED or RATE of heat produced being increased.

To think to be keeping the heat in is NOT for all stove situations...it is only for stoves with not enough built in air inlet regulation.

So, how much SPEED do you need to stay warm?
An Idle doesn't do well when it's terrible cold outside...you wouldn't mow the grass with the mower on idle.

To get the job done...open the Throttle as required. ;)
McGiever
 
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Re: Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

PostBy: JohnnyV On: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:10 pm

A couple of times a heating season the co alarm would go off. Also, there would be a smell of sulfur in the house. Since I have left the MPD open a little I don't smell the sulfur.

It makes sense to me now about the MPD. I was under the impression if you keep it closed you keep all of the heat in the stove. My stove is fairly airtight so it makes sense to keep the MPD open some. I think I am finally getting this to sink into my head.

Thanks
JohnnyV
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 254
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Pellet stove far end of house
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
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Re: Troubleshooting is driving me nuts

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:33 pm

Johnny V, I highly recommend you install a permanent man o meter if you don't have one, so you can see if your draft is trending towards a failure. It's wise for anyone with a coal appliance to have one. It will take some of the guess work out of the equation. :D
Lightning
 
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