New Member Wants to Say Hello

Thanks guys. Yeah - it really is meant to be a giant man cave but I did promise my wife space for her to keep her garden tools - I know what you mean about heat from the top or from the bottom --- what I have to do now is get out the science book and figure the heat loss for the different areas of the building. (actually I cheat - I have a computer program that is really pretty good if you take the time to put in ALL the information). A large part of the picture will be cost - both to install and to run and maintain.

I have noticed a few different preferences here in the boiler division. Radiation in the form of baseboards or radiators / modine HX with fans / and in floor radiant. Seems to me the Modine approach is hot air with a different means to get the heat to the location you are interested in. It certainly is easier than running ducts. Radiators or baseboard in a shop can be a problem either because they get blocked with something or damaged when I am not paying attention. The in floor radiant might be interesting -- I just need to try to make sense of the dollars and cents.

I am in Woolwich, just across the Kennebec from Bath. Anyone have information they would care to share on a good place to buy coal in this area. I can personally haul about 7 tons with truck and equipment trailer but that is really not quite enough to make a trip to PA worthwhile. I saw a video on youtube I think of a guy in Vermont using bulk sacks and skids. He filled the sacks off the coal chute coming in his basement window and he moved the sacks over the feed end of his stoker with a pallet jack as he needed them. Any of you have any experience with having sacks like this loaded at the breaker?

Last topic for the day - don't laugh - any of you ever take a shot at removing the ashes mechanically rather than by hand. Seems to me that as long as you were not generating the occasional giant clinker this should not be too difficult. Especially where I am building the shop from scratch so if I need a trench in the floor etc I can make it as needed. Opening and closing a door or turning a conveyor on or off or sensing when its time to do all that can certainly be done ---- Just a thought.

Think I will take the dog for a walk - got to enjoy the cool breeze

I knew it would turn into a man cave..........

1 thing you have to consider is 3 years from now, would you be kicking yourself in the butt for NOT installing in floor radiant ?? Member LSFarms has it in his garage/workshop in MI. I'm sure he will be along to offer some guidance. Imagine pulling in vehicles to keep them out of the weather and being able to wash them indoors......

I do like the idea of the Modine HX. If each unit is on its own zone, YOU determine where the heat goes. And it keeps them up off the floor. So you can pile stuff underneath them. And it is easier to run the lines to them vs ductwork.

There are some old stokers that did incorporate an ash auger system to remove the ashes. I'm sure you could design something to do that.

And I believe member Vermontday is the one who came up with the bag setup for his boiler. It really is a nice setup he has.

Use the search function here. There is a lot of info already posted.

And we have no problem spending other people's money here. We are full of "I wish I would have done it this way." It's always that damn money issue...........

Rick

Kennebago wrote: Last topic for the day - don't laugh - any of you ever take a shot at removing the ashes mechanically rather than by hand. Seems to me that as long as you were not generating the occasional giant clinker this should not be too difficult.

I'm not laughing. Rotating pot sweeps ash into auger, from which it is picked up by the bucket elevator and moved to the barrel.

Mike

Coal supplier... you may think I'm nuts, but Center Farm Coal ( http://centerfarmscoal.com/) Is in northern Maine, but I'll bet they'd deliver to you & do it at a fair price. They are a potato farm that used to come back from PA empty. They discovered if they brought back coal they could sell it. So... they might just be willing to drop it off to you. Worth a shot! Other than that, if you want an entire truck you will save a bunch of money, but you have to pay for 22 or 24 ton at once. Double Run trucking is my go to place for a whole truck (717-721-3996)

Certainly you will be extra very happy with infloor radiant heat..... and save money at the same time. It uses less fuel than other ways. It's pay me now, or pay me later.

Thanks a lot to all of you for your suggestions and inputs to my questions. Everyone I talk to agrees with the general consensus here - boiler+in floor radiant heat -- I won't say I am convinced but it sure has me thinking. Looked up some data on shops in MN and all who have radiant in floor seem to be happy. Most are of course using something other than coal but they are still happy so that says a lot. Also really appreciated the input on the hauler from Northern Maine - I will be giving them a call in the very near future. Since I have plenty of room around the shop I am trying to think about how I can make this as easy as possible. It would be nice to load the coal in a bunker in the good weather and then feed the boiler from there - looking to see if I can set up a separate "boiler building" so it keeps all the things like dust and ashes away from the workshop. It would be attached so looks like a pretty easy proposition to run the hot water underground for 10 or 15 feet to supply a distribution manifold.

My wife knows I'm not crazy but she did have a sort of odd look on her face when I mentioned all this. Think I may need to go into "secret development mode" for a while.

I will keep you posted as this thing progresses.

Kennebago wrote:Last topic for the day - don't laugh - any of you ever take a shot at removing the ashes mechanically rather than by hand. Seems to me that as long as you were not generating the occasional giant clinker this should not be too difficult. Especially where I am building the shop from scratch so if I need a trench in the floor etc I can make it as needed. Opening and closing a door or turning a conveyor on or off or sensing when its time to do all that can certainly be done ---- Just a thought.

heres a thread to read also Flex Ash Auger

Welcome !! Yes this forum is a great place, full of great people and a big source of ideas.

For your shop/warehouse etc..

I will HIGHLY RECOMMEND using hot water piping in the concrete floor of the main level, with some baseboard units or under floor staple up heat for the second floor..

Here's the reason: first, if you keep the floor at a mere 50-55*, you will be comfortable, the floor will radiate heat to you, your machines, and other objects in the room, and they will retain this heat at roughly the same temp as the floor. Working with ice-cold equipment is a miserable experience, and even if you pre-heat a 5000sqft space for several days at 80*, you will just barely get all the machinery up to comfortable temps..

I have and use an antifreeze/water mix in my hot water-heated floor in my shop, which is currently 40'x60', so 2400square, but I'mm adding another 30'x60' to the building, so it will be 70'x60' soon. The addition will also have hotwater heated floors.
My shop is not all that well sealed or insulated, it was not built by myself, or insulated by myself, If it had been, it would have had sprayed on foam insulation. and fewer rollup doors..
But I did install the concrete floor and in-floor piping. A heated floor is the ONLY way to be comfortable on concrete in our northern climates.. Nothing is worse than a freezing cold floor to walk on, even when the air temp is 70*.

Another issue with hot air heat with cold machinery and floors is condensation.. do you want your floor and machinery to be wet with condensation when the humidity is high ?? It won't be that high most of the winter, but there are many weeks of heating days each season where condensation is a big issue.

Use a modine to raise the air temperature to more comfortable temps for working areas, but keep the floor at least in the 50's. You will NEVER regret using this system.
A neighbor of mine put in a 40'x80' slab for a workshop two years ago, he knows of my shop, has been here in the winter and marveled at the comfort. He pinched pennies and didn't want to install the pex tubing and a small boiler.. and now, he can't use his shop from november through april.. his feet and his arthritis can't stand the cold concrete. and when he HAS to use the shop, the gas furnaces run for a day or more to get the place tollerable.. and the gas bill far exceeds the cost for pex tubing and a boiler..

I use a waste-oil space heater to raise the air temp in my shop when I'm going to be out there for many hours. My 55* floors are great, but if the wind is strong and the outdoor temps low, my leaky shop does cool down to the 40's.

Antifreeze in concentrations that will protect to 10*f are not less efficient at conducting heat, to any significant amount. if the antifreeze concentration is 50/50, like used in most automobiles/trucks/tractors, then yes it is a bit less efficient at heat transfer, but your floor and plumbing doesn't need freeze protection to -30* F. The concrete is a huge heat-sink, and will keep a building above freezing for days in the event of a power outage.

PM me for a phone number and additional info if you wish.

Greg L.