New Member Wants to Say Hello

What a fantastic forum you guys have - hope you will forgive my news starved post but wanted to say hello and look for some suggestions. I grew up in Somerset County PA== 1950's == burning Bit in an old hand fed monster. House was always warm - heat was cheap, and coal was "gassey". I am 72 and still love coal although kind of got away from the Bit. Now building a large workshop (about 5000 feet) in Maine and could use some help. Thinking about an S20 stoker and a warm air furnace. There is no water source in the workshop so boiler would be difficult. Not a lot on the forum about warm air - But it would be way more convenient. Don't laugh but I just retired from a aerospace engineering job - "rocket scientist"!!! I am toying with building my own furnace to sit on the stoker base. Anyone have inputs or do's and dont's. Anyone here happily using warm air?
I also will be looking for a good coal supplier in Maine (good coal / reasonable price) or interested in bringing up a truckload if I can find some "partners" to split a load it would be easier. My shop won't be done until fall of 2014, so I am planning early. Located in the Bath, Maine area.
I spent the last two days reading post after post - great forum and my hat is off to the contributors and whoever keeps all this in order. Hope I can provide worthy posts in the future. --- you guys are great!!

Kennebago

Welcome to the forum !!
I'll make this quick (trying to beat Fred)
...have you considered a Keystoker A250....??(or similiar?)
...what type of temps are you looking to maitain?
What type of construction will the shop be? (well insulated?)etc
...theres alot of great ppl on here....and we could use another rocket scientist!!
...too bad a boiler isnt a option

Damn Rigar, ya went & done it Welcome to the FORUM K. Nope, another brainiac never hurt a thing Lot's of creative info here--Just remember, the only stupid questions, are the ones we don't ask.

Welcome,what type of work will you be doing in the workshop(woodworking,auto,splitting atoms,ect) and how much time will you be spending in there.A shop that size(5000sqft) might be diffulct to heat evenly with a furnace.I don't want to change your mind in choosing between a furnace or boiler,but having a boiler,you could have a radiant floor with a even temp. throught while saving fuel also.Since you won't be piping heat thru the underground,all you would need is a 3/4" insulated line to the workshop,much cheaper than runnig heat pipes with heat loss underground.Just something to think about,since you have plenty of time during the building process,and welcome again.

Welcome to the forum.

Another Mainah and a rocket scientist to boot.

Well that makes 2 rocket scientists that I know of on this forum. Send a PM to forum member Yanche and you guys can converse in that special engineering code you guys use.

At 5000 Square feet, that isn't a workshop, that's a small warehouse !!!!! As was mentioned the construction will play a big part in the heat needed to keep it comfortable. I don't know if a warm air furnace will satisfy your heat needs unless it was placed in the middle of the space with trunk lines going from it like an octopus.

You mention no water but.......with a shop that size you will probably be spending some time out there. Wouldn't you want water to wash your hands, go to the bathroom, etc. ??? I definitely would want some water in the building. If part of the space will be used for vehicle storage, would it not be better to be able to wash off that road salt inside ??? Now since I convinced you to get water, install a boiler. Using a boiler you will be able to place several water to air heat exchangers (Modine type hanging from the ceiling units) around the place to even out the heat in addition to radiant floor heat if desired.

And then at this point, you have several options for the type boiler you need.

Rick

Kennebago -

Welcome, and please check your private messages (envelope icon at top of page).

Thanks.

Mike

Thanks guys for the welcoming comments. The shop is 5000 feet overall. Approximately 3400 on the ground floor will be a garage / metal working area / and a couple of machine tools. The garage will be separated from the rest of the area. The second floor makes up the balance and will be a woodworking shop. Wooden construction, well insulated. very few windows but 3 overhead doors in the garage and 2 large doors in the metal shop. ( Got to get that rocket our for test!!) also a few windows upstairs in the wood shop.

My desire is to use the shop on a regular basis, but that may not be every day. I figured with hot air the biggest issue I would have is restarting the furnace if there was an outfire, but with a boiler I am worried about what happens if I am away and there is an outfire / power loss / etc. Am I lookin at a freeze-up or can I run antifreeze to prevent that possibility. I run it in the house in an oil-fired Buderus boiler ( hmmmm -- room for thought here) or is that out for a coal fired boiler? What do you guys do.

With warm air I figured as long as I could tuck the ducts out of the way (I will be using floor and attic trusses so that looks pretty feasible) I could get reasonable warm air distribution. My guess is I will turn the heat down during non-working hours and back up early in the AM. Any comments on that thought -- - Even though I have burned a lot of coal I have never used a stoker, and as you mifgr have guesses most of the time it was running a warm air system. When I turn the T-stat down and rely on the timer to keep the fire alive my assumption is that I can raise the temperature of the room faster with warm air than with HW.

I certainly can get water to the building and the suggested underground route would certainly be the best way - not a big deal to open a trench and run a line under there. I assume water cpnsumption with a hot water system and a good boiler is near zero, is that correct ---- Can I run glycol in the boiler to prevent freeze-ups?

As mentioned earlier I feel certain I could fab a pretty efficient WA heat exchanger to fit the stoker base -- I have seen enough on here to form the opinion that a used WA Hx is problematic since they are prone to corrosion - but perhaps there is a good one lurking around somewhere.

Any idea, on something like an S20, as to how much coal is burned in a week if it is running on idle the entire week and it needs a boost about every half hour. I am sure it is on here but have not yet located burn rates for just keeping the fire alive.

You guys speak with a pretty convincing voice as to considering a boiler - and I certainly will give it some more in depth thought ---

Thanks - love this forum

12-15 lbs per day to keep a reliable fire in an S-20 stoker. Besides EFM, Keystoker and Leisure Line also make some nice coal furnaces.

I don't know where the belief comes from that boilers are more efficient. The method of heat exchange is immaterial if done properly. In an outbuilding I would much prefer air just for the freedom of worry about freezing. Faster response too. Using anti freeze lowers the heat carrying capacity of water also. One main trunk duct with short branches. If fairly open return duct could be very short. It is a workshop after all.

This sounds like a fairly deluxe or dream garage and workshop so some water would be nice. Could be designed to be able to drain the system easily in the event of need.

Franco,

I'm not saying boiler is more efficient. But with a boiler, he could control the heat more efficiently. Different zones depending on where he was working could mean more efficiency. And the placement of the boiler is not that critical vs the placement of the furnace to distribute the heat to the far reaches of the building.

Having tried to heat my last garage with as Sting calls it "scorched air" I do know how difficult it is especially when dealing with drafty doors and windows and a big open air building.

And I do believe once he can heat the building better, he will be using it more. Think of it as a giant man cave. I'd be running cable along with the water lines !!!!

Rick

All good points to consider.

Welcome kennebago, I'm sure whatever heater you get 50% of us rocket scientists will try to change your mind! ..................................hey, did you sleep at Holiday Inn Express lately...hmmm

Hi Kennebago, I've worked in garages with both heating systems, one is like standing on a ice cube with warm air blowing on you intermittently from above and the other is like standing on a heating pad. No doubt which way I would go. Either way good luck and welcome. What part of Maine are you in?

franco b wrote:I don't know where the belief comes from that boilers are more efficient.

I do... the Dept of Energy! Boilers and furnaces are all given an AFUE rating. The bottom line is boilers are rated higher on annual fuel utilization efficiency.

You don't neeeed water in the building to have a boiler. You can carry water....or antifreeze... and fill it. You might have to top it off once a year or so. But, it sure would be handy to have a place to wash your hands & take a leak! Using anti-freeze isn't less efficient, but it does carry less heat. That means you'll have to oversize your baseboard, Modines, or radiators by about 20%.

It sounds like a wonderful plan! A beast of a shop. Best of luck!

Welcome to the forum kennebago. All I can say is you just picked the perfect heat source. Kids and I just spent the day with a well respected forum member who installs coal heating appliances and all I can say is wow. Once I get my recently acquired antique stove put back together it's time to start saving for a coal boiler. I know your looking at hot air, but same idea. Coal for central heating. I also saw 20+ tons of coal in a footprint no larger than a full size truck. Just be prepared coal becomes an addiction. I have cars I need to work on, house projects to get done, and never ending yard work, but all I can think about is COAL. Good luck and I'm sure the members will steer you in the right direction. Merry Christmas. Matt