Finally installed manometer!

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: ridgeracing On: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:06 pm

Yes, My MPD does have bypass holes and a gap around edge when closed all the way. If I was to guess its like 15% bypassed when closed 100%. Now that I have a manometer I will adjust it to .06-08 when I am burning below 250deg. or warm outside to be safe.
ridgeracing
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine Stove
Stove/Furnace Make: D.S Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1600WH

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: dustyashpan On: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:48 am

ridgeracing wrote:Yes, My MPD does have bypass holes and a gap around edge when closed all the way. If I was to guess its like 15% bypassed when closed 100%. Now that I have a manometer I will adjust it to .06-08 when I am burning below 250deg. or warm outside to be safe.


question, if mpd wide open, & all draft knobs full closed, what is manometer reading?
dustyashpan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Atlanta Homesteader, Harman
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Medal Dockash No.150 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: nut stove pea

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: ridgeracing On: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:09 pm

I no when stove is running about 400deg. And I open mpd 100% I get at least .10+ or better. That is with stove bi-metal intake cracked open about 1/8 of an inch. If I open frt door glass at same time it drops to .02 draft. I believe it does stay at high draft if I close bi-metal intake as well.
ridgeracing
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine Stove
Stove/Furnace Make: D.S Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1600WH

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Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: KingCoal On: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:25 pm

dustyashpan wrote:
ridgeracing wrote:Yes, My MPD does have bypass holes and a gap around edge when closed all the way. If I was to guess its like 15% bypassed when closed 100%. Now that I have a manometer I will adjust it to .06-08 when I am burning below 250deg. or warm outside to be safe.


question, if mpd wide open, & all draft knobs full closed, what is manometer reading?


that doesn't work on the DSM 1600, these stoves have fixed secondary air supply ( non adjustable ) so the stoves are technically not air tight.

you can experiment with varying levels of secondary by dropping bolts into the outlets inside the front load door.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: ridgeracing On: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:16 pm

True, I forgot about secondery air holes. I never get any puff or backfires so I don't want to mess with those holes.
ridgeracing
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine Stove
Stove/Furnace Make: D.S Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1600WH

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: dustyashpan On: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:33 pm

KingCoal wrote:
dustyashpan wrote:
ridgeracing wrote:Yes, My MPD does have bypass holes and a gap around edge when closed all the way. If I was to guess its like 15% bypassed when closed 100%. Now that I have a manometer I will adjust it to .06-08 when I am burning below 250deg. or warm outside to be safe.


question, if mpd wide open, & all draft knobs full closed, what is manometer reading?


that doesn't work on the DSM 1600, these stoves have fixed secondary air supply ( non adjustable ) so the stoves are technically not air tight.

you can experiment with varying levels of secondary by dropping bolts into the outlets inside the front load door.



doesnt matter. need baseline reading. close all front draft thats adjustable, mpd wide open, whats reading. keep mpd open, slowly open draft knob to reading .06 or mfr spec. where is knob then. if it dials .06 with main draft & bypass vents & mpd wide open, why have mpd. if it flies high with main draft closed, big leak somewhere. its stove leak test. not chimney draft test.

1
dustyashpan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Atlanta Homesteader, Harman
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Medal Dockash No.150 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: nut stove pea

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: ridgeracing On: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:59 pm

I can't do that test with my stove having fixed drilled holes for secondary air. You are right, forgot that no matter how I adjust bi/metal there is always secondary air coming threw.
ridgeracing
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine Stove
Stove/Furnace Make: D.S Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1600WH

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: dustyashpan On: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:12 pm

what does manometer read fire going, close main draft, mpd open, bypass air going in ? just read it. whats it say?
dustyashpan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Atlanta Homesteader, Harman
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Medal Dockash No.150 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: nut stove pea

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: ridgeracing On: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:48 pm

I have turned stove temp down to 325 past 24hrs and have had a draft of .03 with mpd closed 100%. Opening mpd 100% and closing bi/metal intake I now read .04. I no that with increasing temps in next 2 days I will have to open mpd a little to sustain a descent draft. It is about 45deg outside, 72-74 inside
ridgeracing
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine Stove
Stove/Furnace Make: D.S Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: DS1600WH

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: dustyashpan On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:06 am

ridgeracing wrote:I have turned stove temp down to 325 past 24hrs and have had a draft of .03 with mpd closed 100%. Opening mpd 100% and closing bi/metal intake I now read .04. I no that with increasing temps in next 2 days I will have to open mpd a little to sustain a descent draft. It is about 45deg outside, 72-74 inside


thank you. stove has .04 leakage from secondary over fire air bleed holes designed in. mpd open. not at .06 yet. if then open manual draft can you get .06 reading, mpd open. mark that spot. problem most draft is over top fire, not under. reduces main draft control effect. fixed drilled bleeds steal control from main draft knob. .04 with mpd open, dont really need mpd. I'd block few fixed air bleeds & come down .01-.03 leak test, transfer control to main draft. new stoves are emission EPA regulated. lots of secondary air in flue, to make legal sellable for EPA. remember air pumps on 1970s cars. same deal pumped air in exhaust manifolds EPA mandate. bleeds create .04 draft then needs mpd to reduce it when main draft opened. no bleeds=no mpd, just draft control. old stoves over fire air was adjustable, today EPA mandates it must be fixed. you can experiment there. question- whats mano reading main draft wide open, mpd wide open?
dustyashpan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Atlanta Homesteader, Harman
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Medal Dockash No.150 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: nut stove pea

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:16 pm

The only problem with all of that is that the secondary air doesn't "steal" air from the primary. This is a good example why a manual pipe damper or barometric is useful. It will limit draft so that excessive secondary air isn't carrying heat out the chimney.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: dustyashpan On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:34 pm

yes it does. hard to explain. starting .04 drilled bleeds & main draft closed, leaves only .02 additional main draft to feed fire, & hit spec of .06 total. that means below fire air less % total draft, than above fire air drilled bleeds. not good. should be at least equal, or above fire should be LESS. remember old stoves, baseheater & oaks with 2 knobs ash door, one knob fire door. both adjustable. 2x air flow ash door under fire. good reason. need more air under than above. ash door air stokes coal fire, not above fire air. drilled bleeds should feed .03 or less alone. minimum 1/2 or more total chimney draft, should be ash door under fire. prefer .01-.02 above fire bleeds, & .04-.05 under fire. do that & stove controls easy & precise on ash door draft, without mpd & baro. old oak stoves, one equal identical knob on fire door, ash door. (never 2 knobs on fire door, 1 on ash door) above fire air wasted up flue. why let it in, just to block off with mpd. don't let it in, no need for mpd. why ? EPA mandate made em do it. emissions. how to get stove pass test ? let air in above fire, dilute flue gas. passes EPA but makes stove burn lousy.
dustyashpan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Atlanta Homesteader, Harman
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Medal Dockash No.150 baseheater
Coal Size/Type: nut stove pea

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:44 pm

dustyashpan wrote:
ridgeracing wrote:I have turned stove temp down to 325 past 24hrs and have had a draft of .03 with mpd closed 100%. Opening mpd 100% and closing bi/metal intake I now read .04. I no that with increasing temps in next 2 days I will have to open mpd a little to sustain a descent draft. It is about 45deg outside, 72-74 inside


thank you. stove has .04 leakage from secondary over fire air bleed holes designed in. mpd open. not at .06 yet. if then open manual draft can you get .06 reading, mpd open. mark that spot. problem most draft is over top fire, not under. reduces main draft control effect. fixed drilled bleeds steal control from main draft knob. .04 with mpd open, dont really need mpd. I'd block few fixed air bleeds & come down .01-.03 leak test, transfer control to main draft. new stoves are emission EPA regulated. lots of secondary air in flue, to make legal sellable for EPA. remember air pumps on 1970s cars. same deal pumped air in exhaust manifolds EPA mandate. bleeds create .04 draft then needs mpd to reduce it when main draft opened. no bleeds=no mpd, just draft control. old stoves over fire air was adjustable, today EPA mandates it must be fixed. you can experiment there. question- whats mano reading main draft wide open, mpd wide open?



Dusty,
Just curious where you heard the EPA mandates fixed secondary air for air pollution purpose ?

Reason I ask is because we just recently had a thread that covered the fact that coal stoves (unlike wood stoves) are exempt from EPA regulation. And, a picture posted recently showing the stove makers tag with the EPA regulation exemption.

Might it be more a case of the secondary air being made fixed because it's one less thing to confuse a new stove owner ? Or, how to reduce chances of puff backs ? In other words, to shift your analogy of a car motor a bit (pun intended :D ) more like an automatic choke is less likely to do engine damage then a manual choke at the hands of a novice.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: JohnB On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:47 pm

dustyashpan wrote: EPA mandate made em do it. emissions. how to get stove pass test ? let air in above fire, dilute flue gas. passes EPA but makes stove burn lousy.


The 50-93 doesn't seem to have any secondary air system & it's an EPA approved coal stove.
JohnB
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Hitzer 50-93

Re: Finally installed manometer!

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:51 pm

JohnB wrote:
dustyashpan wrote: EPA mandate made em do it. emissions. how to get stove pass test ? let air in above fire, dilute flue gas. passes EPA but makes stove burn lousy.


The 50-93 doesn't seem to have any secondary air system & it's an EPA approved coal stove.


Are they EPA approved ? Or EPA exempt ?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

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