Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:53 pm

Richard S. wrote:
jpete wrote:So they want to charge you to generate power and you can be arrested for cutting their cord. Seems about right....


No they want to charge you for using their distribution system, this depends on what state you are in but for example in California the state mandates the distributor pay the homeowner retail for the electric they are putting back into the grid and if the homeowners has a surplus of power they pay nothing for being tied to the grid. All those costs are passed onto the regular customers.

Such a system like that is open to fraud becsue even with small amount of battery storage you could charge them overnight and then put that power back into the grid to hit your surplus.


You know me, I'm not big on government forcing anyone to do anything. I say if the power company doesn't want the generated power, it shouldn't be force to buy it.

But by the same token, if I disconnect from the grid, I don't expect to see any repercussions as in the Florida case.
jpete
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:04 pm

Well I'll be damned,Sam! My Left Groinulator is wrong ! Ida figured this Group was a simple Schill Organization for the EEI. Nope,according to the Wikster's,they're a much broader Group. To be honest with you,this whole deal reminds me of why the REA(Rural Electrification Act)was passed back in the day. Thanx,Sam ! :o
Hambden Bob
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:09 pm

Yep! That's why I believe in the power of poo, I'm going to have to take another little visit up there & see if it slows down in the cold temps. :shock:
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:45 pm

I've come around full circle here. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that both Richard and jpete are hitting the nail on the head. First off, the power company should be under no obligation to permit your electricity onto its grid in the first place, and secondly if they do permit it, it is after all their grid (as in "You didn't build that!"), and as such they have the right to charge you for some portion of the upkeep and maintenance of it if you choose to dump your electricity into it, and if they agree (under their terms, up to and including fees) to permit you to do so.
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:18 am

I really don't care if someone's going to generate their own electricity, by all means, go right ahead. But, when I'm paying taxes and fees to cover your huge subsidy on the installation, and then, in addition, I'm forced (through rates I must pay) to subsidize the power produced by your little green home generating station, I'm pissed.
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:47 am

jpete wrote:
But by the same token, if I disconnect from the grid, I don't expect to see any repercussions as in the Florida case.


Did I miss something?
Richard S.
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:46 am

Richard S. wrote:
jpete wrote:
But by the same token, if I disconnect from the grid, I don't expect to see any repercussions as in the Florida case.


Did I miss something?


A woman in Florida recently took her fully paid for (and up to date in taxes) city home off the grid willfully and intentionally and she is being evicted from the now condemned home because the city has deemed it to be unsanitary if it is not part of their grid. They never once stepped foot in it. They just nailed a condemnation notice on the door and ordered the woman to get out.
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:02 am

Just looked it up Larry, she has no running water and I would imagine that is the major factor in their decision. Unless she is able to collect enough rain water to flush the toilets I'd have to agree with their assessment of course if the assessment was from a news story that doesn't cut it either.

That's really a weird situation, you can't draw any conclusions without knowing the full story.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:15 am

Regardless of what group's are fighting each other,Larry,Berlin and Richard,I'm feeling you've got it summed up. A paid for pathway is a toll road. If your going to produce power,and admit it to the grid,then you should help pay for it's existance,revenue or reward that got you to the payout. Public Utility costs are shared.
Hambden Bob
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:04 am

Hambden Bob wrote:...then you should help pay for it's existance,revenue or reward that got you to the payout.


Most of these people aren't making money selling power, the benefit for them is they don't have to buy battery storage which can double the cost of solar system. They have excessive power at some times of the day and shortages at others. By connecting into the grid they are basically trading their excessive power for times when they need it like at night. This is the only way these systems will ever become competitive on the open market, it's ironic but as this expands they will be reliant of fossil generated power to be viable.

I did some figuring a few years back on what it would cost to provide heat for 2000 sq ft. home with solar and it came out to like $250K. Part of the reason for that is becsue you would have to meet peak demand for heat which coincides with some of the shortest days of the year. You could build a much smaller system that is connected to the grid becsue you can make excessive power all year long and then get it back in the winter when you really need it.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:00 am

Regarding the woman in Florida, i wonder what her city would say to her sinking a well on her property for showers and toilet flushing? That would clear her of any perception of unsanitary conditions. But the catch is that it's most likely not legal for her to have her own well. And with a well comes a septic system, which I'm sure they would frown upon. Otherwise she is still grid tied to the citys waste system.
lsayre
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:58 pm

Richard S. wrote:Just looked it up Larry, she has no running water and I would imagine that is the major factor in their decision. Unless she is able to collect enough rain water to flush the toilets I'd have to agree with their assessment of course if the assessment was from a news story that doesn't cut it either.

That's really a weird situation, you can't draw any conclusions without knowing the full story.


Any chance she has a point well in her basement? I hear that's going around and in Florida, you could probably hit water with a teaspoon.

She could have composting toilets. The city doesn't know, they never bothered to ask.

Because the dirty little secret is that government owns everything, and you just rent it. And if you don't agree to their terms, you'll be evicted.
Last edited by jpete on Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:02 pm

Hambden Bob wrote:Regardless of what group's are fighting each other,Larry,Berlin and Richard,I'm feeling you've got it summed up. A paid for pathway is a toll road. If your going to produce power,and admit it to the grid,then you should help pay for it's existance,revenue or reward that got you to the payout. Public Utility costs are shared.


But it's not(at least here) a "public" utility. National Grid is a private corporation based in England. And NGrid actually charges extra for "renewable" energy which I know they aren't paying individual generators a premium for.

This is something that the power company and the people could and should work out for themselves without "help" from the government.
jpete
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:28 pm

jpete wrote:
Hambden Bob wrote:Regardless of what group's are fighting each other,Larry,Berlin and Richard,I'm feeling you've got it summed up. A paid for pathway is a toll road. If your going to produce power,and admit it to the grid,then you should help pay for it's existance,revenue or reward that got you to the payout. Public Utility costs are shared.


But it's not(at least here) a "public" utility. National Grid is a private corporation based in England. And NGrid actually charges extra for "renewable" energy which I know they aren't paying individual generators a premium for.

This is something that the power company and the people could and should work out for themselves without "help" from the government.


they are paying a premium for it.
Berlin
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:36 pm

jpete,does Rhode Island have a Public Utilities Commission ? In Ohio,it's titled PUCO. All Utilities (Publicly Traded,Public Utilities just like Nat.Grid) in the State operate under their jurisdiction and have to make a case for tariff's,rates and practices. We've seen set-ups where there were two meters,one for consumption,and one for outflow to the system,aka the Grid. They've been mandated by the PUCO to accept the power from The Green Guys' Systems.... When new corridors of right of way need to be petitioned for,they go before a Siting Board,also a State Function. Again,alot of this goes back to the old REA Legislation on the Federal End. Those old REA's are now known in many places as Touchstone Cooperatives.....
Hambden Bob
 
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