Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:03 am

jpete wrote:But it's not(at least here) a "public" utility. National Grid is a private corporation based in England. And NGrid actually charges extra for "renewable" energy which I know they aren't paying individual generators a premium for.


The way this works in most states Jpete is the the state sets a minimum amount the distributor needs in the system for renewable energy. Because of that they either pay a premium for it or make it up by buying "green credits".
Richard S.
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:18 am

And there we are with government intervention throwing a left handed monkey wrench into the works again. ;)
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:06 am

http://www.realfarmacy.com/ibm-solar-co ... re-planet/
I found this to be interesting & it even has funding.
samhill
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:41 am

When the government steps out of the way, and allows entrepreneurs and the free market system to WORK ... ALONE ... , eventually, they WILL come up with something revolutionary that might truly get us off fossil fuels altogether.

This may very well be an excellent example of just that - funding by a Swiss company, rather than a government entity - that's how things are SUPPOSED to work.



I remember back when Clinton was at the helm, our state de-regulated the power industry. The local news fawned all over the "glorious" Clinton regime for making this possible. Of course, they don't tell you the whole story. As usual, reality is COMPLETELY different ...

I've got a buddy that fell into this trap by taking up an offer from another generation entity. They promised huge savings. With 8 kids, this sounded great! Anything to get his $300 electric bill lower is a good thing! All was well .... until the company suddenly decided to TRIPLE their generation rate!! He is now stuck with a ONE THOUSAND DOLLAR electric bill. I kid you not!! :eek2: :fear: :eek2:

Thanks, Clinton regime .... :sick:
SMITTY
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:59 am

Smitty, is that the fault of Clinton or the utility? People want less Gov. & less regulation & then when a Co. with no morals comes along (& actually tells an untruth) people blame Gov.. :?
samhill
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:00 pm

I blame the media AND government for the misinformation. It's even worse today!
SMITTY
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:36 pm

We'll just leave it at that, don't want to be accused of the dastardly thread drift again. :bag:
samhill
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Freddy On: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:58 am

SMITTY wrote:He is now stuck with a ONE THOUSAND DOLLAR electric bill. I kid you not!!


I trust he has changed back to the original company? As for the $1,000 bill.... I'd have a hard time paying that. First.... at least in Maine....they could not have raised the rates without notice. If there was no written notice in with the previous bill, it's not a valid increase.
Freddy
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:19 am

In Michigan, the power companies are required, I think by the FEDERAL govt to have a certain percentage of power from 'renewable sources'.
For my power company, DTE, they are way behind on getting enough 'renewable' power into their grid. But for much of the rest of the state, Consumers'Power is doing very well reaching their required percentages.

So Consumers is not very 'friendly' toward new solar or wind powered systems, Consumers does not pay very well for grid-tied credits, sharing or payback of credits accrued. I believe the main reason is that Consumers' geographic areas in the state allow for a LOT of wind-generated power..
BUT, there is NO requirement for the towers, generators, blades etc to be made in Michigan, or even in America.
So, guess what? it's all imported, only the labor is from Michigan, and not even all of that is from Michigan.
The wind generation grids will only support a few poor paying jobs when the towers are up and working.. GRRRR :mad:

BUT in my area, DTE is way behind getting renewable power online. So they are under the gun to reach their percentages.
So the incentives and requirements are more 'friendly' .

As Freddy wrote, solar systems are near perfect for helping out a utility company.. The solar panels create the most power just when it's needed most, and this peak power IS the most expensive for a utility company.
Think of it this way: if you were able to generate 100% of your power needs 24/7/365, then the utility would not have to increase it's grid capacity for that household.
NOW lets look at a grid tie system; I makes say 2x the power needed by the house during the hot, sunny days. and therefore pushes roughly enough current back into the grid to power yet another household..
The wires are there, and have been there since the '40's, So there is no new or addtitional infrastructure for the utility.
The utility, Wins twice. The solar powered house is in essence 'off the grid' at the peak power time, and the solar panels are providing the utility yet another 'virtual house not on the grid'. That's a huge savings for the utility.

Then, as the sun sets, the house will start using power from the grid, and pays for KWH's, distribution charges and taxes.
I sometimes wonder if I should be an additional credit for not just the KWH's when I'm pushing power into the grid,, since I'm in essence providing the distribution of the power to my neighbors on the same set of wires.
This is rather abstract, and would never happen, but it is a thought.

For my electric bill, I get a 1:1 return on my credits. But there are additional incentives available if you apply for them, with the 'lottery' for the incentives, Then there is a small payback for some of the hardware purchased: for panels and inverters. it's based on the generating capacity of the array.

The only time when I see solar as being detrimental is if the utility allows so many solar systems on line, that they do not keep the grid up to capability. So what happens with a very cloudy, yet hot week? the A/C units in the homes draw a lot of current, and if the utility hasn't kept up with needed capacity, a brown out or black out will happen...

I'm certainly not aware of just how much federal and state tax revenue is used to pay for any of the incentives. but I built my array before there were any hardware payback incentives..
Just being able to use the grid as a virtual, 100% efficient 'battery'. My excess current is metered, credited, and for most of the summer, I don't have an electric bill. but this last winter, I used up all my banked credits and do still have an electric bill.

If the last 12 months are an accurate indication, i should have paid back my very large cash outlay in about 6 years. So I'm certainly not getting 'rich' or getting a check. I've just paid for 6 years of electricity in advance.. .

Food for thought..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: tsb On: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:01 pm

I'm not an electrical engineer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn recently, but how much of
the "excess power " generated by solar panels do you really think gets pushed back
through your local transformer into the high voltage grid. My guess is non. It may make
it back to the pole where it is a hazard to local linemen, but not much further.
tsb
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:04 pm

tsb wrote:I'm not an electrical engineer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn recently, but how much of
the "excess power " generated by solar panels do you really think gets pushed back
through your local transformer into the high voltage grid. My guess is non. It may make
it back to the pole where it is a hazard to local linemen, but not much further.


So the electric company is paying for nothing?
jpete
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:08 pm

tsb wrote:I'm not an electrical engineer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn recently, but how much of
the "excess power " generated by solar panels do you really think gets pushed back
through your local transformer into the high voltage grid. My guess is non. It may make
it back to the pole where it is a hazard to local linemen, but not much further.



Should be all of it - any line loss. Current follows the path of least resistance to ground. They use phase synchronization to match the grid. If the grid needs the current it will flow.
Flyer5
 
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