Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:38 pm

A conservative group has determined that if you are pushing your own solar panel or wind turbine produced electricity onto the grid, you are freeloading on the grid system in order to make a buck, and you will henceforth have to pay to push your current out onto the grid. It's essentially "You didn't build that!", but from the conservative perspective. All of that public grid infrastructure that you have been shamelessly taking advantage of at the expense of the rest of us plebes will now cost you as well (if this group has its way, that is).

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/12/0 ... el-owners/
lsayre
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:07 pm

Sounds like an astroturf group financed by the power companies to me.

So they want to charge you to generate power and you can be arrested for cutting their cord. Seems about right....
jpete
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:27 pm

Conservative Group my Left Groinulator ! Cripes,even a Stoopy like me can see right through this one ! :fear:
Hambden Bob
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:34 pm

Like I stated in the past. The government does not want the peasants to become independent of the system. It may lead to anarchy.
Flyer5
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:27 am

I just don't like it when some peasants use the gov't to force other peasants to pay for their pet projects and electricity.
Berlin
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Freddy On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:58 am

I've always been pleased that they do not charge delivery fees on credits pushed to the grid, but there is a reason why. The fact is that people with solar panels are saving the power companies money. When electric power use goes up power companies must generate more to meet the demand. The very last thing they turn on is the old diesels as they are very expensive to run. When is electric use the highest? Bright sunny hot days. Solar panels produce electricity exactly when it is needed the most. Also.... new power plants are expensive to build. Solar panels delay the expense of building of new infrastructure.

The only one thing I do see is that some places pay EXTRA for solar power. I'm not sure how that came about, but it seems that it would be fair to stop paying more than normal wholesale. Here in Maine they don't pay for solar produced power....they trade 100% even, and credits drop off after one year. They will never write a check for power produced.
Freddy
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:57 am

lsayre wrote:A conservative group has determined that if you are pushing your own solar panel or wind turbine produced electricity onto the grid, you are freeloading on the grid system in order to make a buck, and you will henceforth have to pay to push your current out onto the grid. It's essentially "You didn't build that!", but from the conservative perspective. All of that public grid infrastructure that you have been shamelessly taking advantage of at the expense of the rest of us plebes will now cost you as well (if this group has its way, that is).

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/12/0 ... el-owners/


Well Larry don't force the power distributor to accept these connections and usually pay retail for the electric. The homeowner saves a tremendous amount of money by being able to tie into the grid but they are using a service being paid for by other consumers. The only way these systems will ever become cost competitive is if they can tie into the grid and if they are going to do that they need to help pay for it.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:03 am

jpete wrote:So they want to charge you to generate power and you can be arrested for cutting their cord. Seems about right....


No they want to charge you for using their distribution system, this depends on what state you are in but for example in California the state mandates the distributor pay the homeowner retail for the electric they are putting back into the grid and if the homeowners has a surplus of power they pay nothing for being tied to the grid. All those costs are passed onto the regular customers.

Such a system like that is open to fraud becsue even with small amount of battery storage you could charge them overnight and then put that power back into the grid to hit your surplus.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: titleist1 On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:25 am

I wonder what the distribution charges per kw are for the companies currently generating power? I can see what they are for a consumer per kw on my electric bill, but i suspect the power generators pay less per kw than the consumers. I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see that the distribution charges on an electric bill are applied to both used and generated power but at different rates (retail vs. wholesale). I also wouldn't be surprised to see 'credits' for generated power paid out for less than what consumers are charged.

This is similar to the situation with high fuel mileage vehicles. The taxes on fuel that go toward highway maintenance are 'missing' from electric / high fuel mileage vehicles even though they use the roads same as low fuel mileage cars. The idea of a yearly 'per mile' tax has been floated to make up this missing revenue regardless of the fuel your car uses.
titleist1
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:47 am

Just for HB I did a little search of the group.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_L ... ge_Council
samhill
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:52 am

If a homeowner that could produce power quits then they have to buy like any other, they pay the generation charge, distribution charge & all those others we see on our bills. The normal power Co. is nothing but a broker buying it wholesale & marking it up plus all the others, the lines & such are being used either way so if they can get power off a homeowner producer at the retail rate they still make money. Line Maint. is still there anyhow the current doesn't weigh or wear the lines out, if anyone at all gets hurt it may be the producer that will now cry to their lobbyist. My co-op produces somewhere above 80% of their power but encourage other forms of generation so they will have to buy less, their biggest concern is that their is no feed during a power outage for safety sake.
samhill
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:30 am

Humm, I wonder if you would be charged if you produced say 90% of the power you use and didn't have any surplus to sell to the electric company.
carlherrnstein
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: titleist1 On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:23 am

keep in mind there are two entities involved where there used to be one. there is the power generation company and the power distribution company. they are totally separate companies. some of the comments seem to 'gray' this line a little. having wind or solar in your backyard has you on the 'generation' side of the fence in the 'distribution' companies minds.


carlherrnstein wrote:I wonder if you would be charged if you produced say 90% of the power you use and didn't have any surplus to sell to the electric company


good question, and along this line of thought....are the smart meters smart enough to know and track usage by the hour or minute (or even smaller granularity)? i know the older meters cannot. who owns the meters, the distribution company?

for example, they and you will need to know that for three hours today you were generating more power than you needed and feeding it back into the grid so the measured kw you sent back need to be charged the 'distribution' rate given to 'generators'. otherwise, unless you generate more than you need over the monthly billing cycle you would never know the kw you should be charged for on the generation side. hmm maybe they will use that as an excuse to charge the same distribution rate for usage or generation and i would bet it gets the distribution companies the most money to do it that way.
titleist1
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:27 am

Over 50% of my electric bill is distribution fees. The rest is TAXES. Only 30% of my bill is for the actual electricity .... :mad:
SMITTY
 
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Re: Warning to grid-tied solar panel and wind turbine proponents

PostBy: Freddy On: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:31 pm

carlherrnstein wrote:I wonder if you would be charged if you produced say 90% of the power you use and didn't have any surplus to sell to the electric company.


At this point it is all hypothetical. From what I've read this idea of charging a delivery fee to home solar arrays is just an idea submitted by one entity. It is no where near a reality as of yet. The way it sits right now in Maine is : If it ever gets to a point that over 1% of power is produced by home solar or wind, then they will revisit the "trade 100% even" program.

Yes, a smart meter can tell when and how much power is sent to the grid.

If you produce 90% of the power you use, logically some of it would go to & from the grid. What's the chances that you would use all 90% during the day, during the sunny part of the day? I'd think very slim. Certainly some of it is going to go out to the grid, for trade or sale, whatever the deal is with your power company.
Freddy
 
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