Domestic Coil on AK 110 Furnace

 
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Flyer5
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Post by Flyer5 » Sat. Oct. 11, 2014 5:58 pm

heatwithcoal wrote:Has this experiment gotten anywhere?

Mark
I had no one take me up on the offer and this year I just don't have the time to dedicate to it. I will probably look at it again in the spring for next year.


 
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Post by CRH » Wed. Oct. 29, 2014 10:35 am

Dave,
When you are ready let me know I will try it. Our hot water heater is LP and may be harder to track. I'll supply the beer if you make the 3 hr drive.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Wed. Oct. 29, 2014 11:41 am

I will repeat an earlier post - attractive idea but I do not think it will work well. I'm just trying to save you money.

 
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Post by Flyer5 » Wed. Oct. 29, 2014 12:11 pm

CRH wrote:Dave,
When you are ready let me know I will try it. Our hot water heater is LP and may be harder to track. I'll supply the beer if you make the 3 hr drive.
I disagree with coalnewbie. :D But it wont happen till probably at least January. We are swamped.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Wed. Oct. 29, 2014 3:28 pm

:D AH, a good friendly discussion to while away a rainy afternoon.

The AK 110 probably puts out around 90,000btu. Like ALL stove manufacturers there is some gentle manipulation of output data. This world class stove design scrubs most of that heat into the tubes for distribution. XS heat remains on the front of the stove above the loading door. It can get as high as 600* but mostly is about 300-400* and in the cuff season way less. So the idea would be to put a device like a car radiator to grab that heat. BTW, I have one that I have never fitted. If I estimate heat transfer into that radiator I would think 5-10,000 BTU tops and that is when the stove is cranking. Not enough for DHW and anyway I want that heat to warm the area and do the job the stove was bought for. So nothing in the summer or the shoulder seasons nothing worth a damn and in the winter perhaps and then only if you do not want the heat elsewhere - sorry.

Dave is a good friend and friends are allowed to argue. AK47s at dawn OK for you Dave? :D

 
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Post by CoaldHeat » Fri. Oct. 31, 2014 7:51 am

coalnewbie wrote: If I estimate heat transfer into that radiator I would think 5-10,000 BTU tops and that is when the stove is cranking. Not enough for DHW and anyway I want that heat to warm the area and do the job the stove was bought for.
What if you could use it to redirect the heat the stove is putting out (which is what it was bought for). Here is my thought, while it may be less efficient it may yield desirable results. Say for example in my home (about 2,400 SQ FT), it's all one level with rooms and additions heading off into areas that my LL's natural air flow can't always get to (odd shaped house). Rather than trying to steal all the heat from the stoker, how about stealing a little of it and using it in conjuction with the air convection. What if you mounted a radiator like the one Dave linked behind the stoker (mostly out of sight and not where most of the heat comes off the stove), then put a heat shield behind the radiator (back of stove-radiator-heat shield). Instead of plumbing the radiator into a DHW device, instead put a circulator pump inline (I assume an expansion tank, I am not an expert on hydronics nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night :)) with a standard hydronic baseboard (Slantfin for example) in the far away room and have it loop. I know the area my stove is in gets into the high 80's when heating the house (reading on my thermostat for my oil boiler (backup), probably 6 ft away in a very open foyer) so I imagine it would be at least that behind my stoker (90 to 100 would be more like it). I would think while not ideal temperature for heating it would be enough to generate heat in that room along with the heated air working it's way there from the stoker.

Thoughts?

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Fri. Oct. 31, 2014 8:19 am

Thoughts
WOW that is asking a lot from an old fart. However, I have studied hydronics at the foot of the master in Fox Valley WI and according to the notes I took I am able to answer definitively....

It depends.


 
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Post by CoaldHeat » Fri. Oct. 31, 2014 8:24 am

coalnewbie wrote:
Thoughts
WOW that is asking a lot from an old fart.
It depends.
:) Be careful admitting you are an old fart and depends in the same conversation ;)

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Fri. Oct. 31, 2014 8:31 am

:) Be careful admitting you are an old fart and depends in the same conversation ;)
Yes, but they burn horribly and smell bad.

 
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Post by Flyer5 » Fri. Oct. 31, 2014 2:13 pm

CoaldHeat wrote:
coalnewbie wrote: If I estimate heat transfer into that radiator I would think 5-10,000 BTU tops and that is when the stove is cranking. Not enough for DHW and anyway I want that heat to warm the area and do the job the stove was bought for.
What if you could use it to redirect the heat the stove is putting out (which is what it was bought for). Here is my thought, while it may be less efficient it may yield desirable results. Say for example in my home (about 2,400 SQ FT), it's all one level with rooms and additions heading off into areas that my LL's natural air flow can't always get to (odd shaped house). Rather than trying to steal all the heat from the stoker, how about stealing a little of it and using it in conjuction with the air convection. What if you mounted a radiator like the one Dave linked behind the stoker (mostly out of sight and not where most of the heat comes off the stove), then put a heat shield behind the radiator (back of stove-radiator-heat shield). Instead of plumbing the radiator into a DHW device, instead put a circulator pump inline (I assume an expansion tank, I am not an expert on hydronics nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night :)) with a standard hydronic baseboard (Slantfin for example) in the far away room and have it loop. I know the area my stove is in gets into the high 80's when heating the house (reading on my thermostat for my oil boiler (backup), probably 6 ft away in a very open foyer) so I imagine it would be at least that behind my stoker (90 to 100 would be more like it). I would think while not ideal temperature for heating it would be enough to generate heat in that room along with the heated air working it's way there from the stoker.

Thoughts?
If you are going for a lot of hydronic BTUs best just buy a boiler. Just my opinion.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Sat. Nov. 01, 2014 7:35 am

If you are going for a lot of hydronic BTUs best just buy a boiler. Just my opinion.
...and the WL series are some of the best.

 
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Post by CoaldHeat » Mon. Nov. 03, 2014 9:35 am

Flyer5 wrote: If you are going for a lot of hydronic BTUs best just buy a boiler. Just my opinion.
Huh??? I am not trying to heat my house with water heated from a stoker going through a radiator. I wasn't even planning on trying what I was talking about. I was replying to coalnewbies comment that I quoted in my experimental idea (kinda thought thats what was intended by this thread). I was talking about a different approach to use some of the stokers heat for another purpose. The orignal post had using the radiator to temper the water heading into a DHW device. I was just thinking outside the box on how one could possibly use that radiator (heat exchanger) to use some of the heat produced by the stoker in another way to still use it for heating an area (Not the whole house) instead of DHW. I guess I didn't get my thoughts across very well. My thought was to give up a few BTU's at the stoker and be able to put it in a room (still using it as heat) using heated water and a hydronic baseboard. For example if you only cared about having your bedroom upstairs heated on the second floor. Heating the main floor with stoker (convection) and plumb the heat exchanger, circulator pump, expansion tank and hydronic baseboard heating element, you might be able to get some heat there. It was just an idea, stretching the brain a little. :)

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Nov. 03, 2014 10:50 am

That's a big investment to heat just one room,some duct work would accomplish the same thing for many $$$ less.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Mon. Nov. 03, 2014 10:59 am

That's a big investment to heat just one room,some duct work would accomplish the same thing for many $$$ less
2x, go hydronic or save your money. You're planning something for nothing. Perhaps even a strategic cold air return and suck it/convect it up there.

 
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Post by CoaldHeat » Mon. Nov. 03, 2014 1:19 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:That's a big investment to heat just one room,some duct work would accomplish the same thing for many $$$ less.
Ok, I will just not bother with this thread... Pretty sure no one is really reading what I was typing anyway. I have no interest and never had any interest in doing this, it was all hypothetical as a way to use the heat exchanger that was posted in this thread in a unique out of the box way.

And as a direct reply, it is not easy to necessarily run duct work in every situation. For example in the first posting I made, my home is all one level and does not have a way to run duct work easily to the room/rooms that are not easy for the heated air to reach via convection. Whereas, they already have baseboard tubing installed in those rooms.

Carry on.


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