Clay tile liner?

Clay tile liner?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:20 pm

Is it possible to line a St-St insulated chimney with 4" round flue clay tiles (terracota)?
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:53 pm

Nortcan how's my Northern friend? I guess you could but you would have to find a way to safely secure the first liner so the rest of them could set on the first one without fear of a collapse and a flue blockage but If It was me I wouldn't even think of doing it! but now I have to ask why?. Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:55 pm

Possible yes, practical no.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal


Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:43 pm

Keepaeyeonit wrote:Nortcan how's my Northern friend? I guess you could but you would have to find a way to safely secure the first liner so the rest of them could set on the first one without fear of a collapse and a flue blockage but If It was me I wouldn't even think of doing it! but now I have to ask why?. Keepaeyeonit


Hi Keepaeyeonit, all is fine here and we get lot of snow, hum, Winter time and it's OK for me.
The idea is to be able to re-line an existant chimney, St-St or other material, when it is damaged. If St-St liners are not very rust resistant, an other material may be better to be used. The first tile could be supported with a metal support fixed at the base of the actual chimney's support. This exemple is for an interior chimney. A sort of inflatable bladder ( like the one found in a small water tank) could be used to lower the tiles one at the time. When the tile would sits on the previous one, the bladder would be ""de-flated"" to be release it.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:49 pm

coalkirk wrote:Possible yes, practical no.

Many times we can read comments about St-St chimneys and liners rust problems. Many times we can read comments about the ""best"" way to stop, or slow down the rust eating the St-St material. Except for terracota flue tiles, I don't know what we could use to reline definitively an existant chimney .
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:11 pm

So you want to reline a class A chimney? I used a small scissor jack with 2-10' pieces of PVC electrical conduit as handles to lower my liners down chimney but they are 8" ID
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I have used test plugs for doing pressure tests on sewer pipe,the plugs come in various sizes and I think thats what you would want just watch the pressure you put in I have cracked clay pipe a few times using them.The biggest problem I see is getting the first one safely set so it will hold the weight of the rest.
I think you should read this thread( Using a SS chimney (Dura-Vent) with a coal stove) some are saying 20+years with them,I find that hard to believe but I have never had one but I know for a fact the SS flex liners don't last long.Keepaeyeonit :)
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:20 pm

Keepaeyeonit wrote:So you want to reline a class A chimney? I used a small scissor jack with 2-10' pieces of PVC electrical conduit as handles to lower my liners down chimney but they are 8" ID
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I have used test plugs for doing pressure tests on sewer pipe,the plugs come in various sizes and I think thats what you would want just watch the pressure you put in I have cracked clay pipe a few times using them.The biggest problem I see is getting the first one safely set so it will hold the weight of the rest.
I think you should read this thread( Using a SS chimney (Dura-Vent) with a coal stove) some are saying 20+years with them,I find that hard to believe but I have never had one but I know for a fact the SS flex liners don't last long.Keepaeyeonit :)

Thanks for the answer. In what kind of chimney did you put the tiles? Do you have an idea (about) of the weight of a tile like yours, and the thickness of the tile wall, and the length of a tile. Did you put an insulation around the tiles?
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:43 pm

I relined my N-E facing exterior chimney from 12"SQ to 8"round inside(10" round outside and 45# each) and added 2' to the hight(22' chimney now),I also filled the air space with Perlite
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all I can say is wow! the draft on it is better then I expected today it was 64* and real damp.The stove temp was 250* draft was .05WC all day plus I didn't have to cover the baro :D.The place that made mine go from 6" to 18"round but I think superior makes 4" I/D and I would guess the weight to be around 20#'s each(thats English not metric)Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:37 pm

Very nice job K. The scisor jack is a very g :idea: ood
How did you finished the chimney's top?
Thanks for all the infos and photos.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:50 am

Did ya butter the lip or was it a dry fit...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:50 am

Cape,All the joints have Heatstop 50 refractory cement on them.
Nortcan, I used fiber reinforced concrete for the crown but I only made it 3" thick after I finished it I would have liked 4" but it's doing the job.
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: buffalo bob On: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:15 pm

keep an eye on cap for shrinkage cracks use masonry caulk on them to keep the water out thats what causes chim damage...
buffalo bob
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: anthracite nut

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:09 pm

Thanks BB, I used sill seal around the liner and cut it below the crown then filled the space with polyurethane caulk.
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:29 pm

It's good that you used the fiber mesh. The nice part about it is that shrinkage cracks in concrete are almost nonexistent.

15 years ago when I re-did parts of my shop building, I specified using fiber mesh for the poured concrete, radiant heat floors. Because I move around very heavy objects on car jacks, engine hoists, and custom-built engine stands with small steel caster wheels, I specified no expansion joints.

Plus I wanted it as extra protection for not stressing the heat pipes. There was some concern that the radiant heat floor's hot/cold cycling of the floor mass during winter as the hot water gets pumped through the slab when there's a call for heat, not only puts extra stress on the slab, the movement over long runs of pipe can wear on the plastic tubing in the concrete maybe shortening pipe life.

The biggest slab is 24 feet long x 22 feet. There is only one hair-line crack down the 24 foot long center line. That was the stop line of two radiant heat coil "zones" and it was also done as two separate pours hours apart on the same day. You have to get on hands and knees to see it. For shrinkage per foot, there's about a 1/4 inch gap on each side where it was poured up to the wall sills.

The down side was a "hairy" looking floor for a few months, that made broom sweeping not as thorough as it could be until the fuzz got scuffed off by walking on it. One of the contractor's workers calls them "gorilla floors". :D

The 24 x 14 slab in my paint booth has eight anchor pots imbedded in it for chains to attach pullers for frame straightening. and no cracks anywhere in it.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Clay tile liner?

PostBy: nortcan On: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:55 pm

Maybe a curious question but can you tell me what you mean by: ""fiber mesh""?
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride