WL110 Not Keeping up

If the feed is maxed out, the fire is maximum size, and the boiler is clean, there isn't much else you can do.

I have never even seen a LL110, much less studied the specs. Does Leisure Line provide a recommendation for the maximum amount of hot water radiation that should be connected?

EarthWindandFire wrote:I have to agree with Mike, the capacity of this boiler in both BTU's and water capacity simply isn't enough for the demand. Based on the information posted in this thread, the Leisure Line WL220 would have provided a more comfortable BTU cushion.

The only recourse, without buying another boiler, is to install more reserve water capacity with another tank. Another option might be to tie-in a tankless water heater. The tankless water heater could "pre-heat" the tap water before it enters the boiler. Does anyone agree with this or can offer more information?

To preheat DHW before it enters the boiler coil would be good, except when reaching the the point whereyou begin to preheat the whole boiler...coil is not just moving the heat in the one direction.

Kinda defeats the idea on fuel price savings too.

Sounds like he will have to bite the bullet and add insulated an insulated water storage
buffer tank or two or three for now as it would be more economical.

A buffer tank will help from the thermal mass. The only other decision will be whether
to have another circulating pump between the buffer tank and the WL110 and two check
valves for the buffer tank

lzaharis wrote:Sounds like he will have to bite the bullet and add insulated an insulated water storage buffer tank or two or three for now as it would be more economical.

A buffer tank will help from the thermal mass. The only other decision will be whether
to have another circulating pump between the buffer tank and the WL110 and two check
valves for the buffer tank

How much storage are you assuming, and how can you conclude that acquiring and installing multiple buffer tanks would be "more economical" than upgrading to a boiler sized to properly handle the load?

Mike

Rob R. wrote:Does Leisure Line provide a recommendation for the maximum amount of hot water radiation that should be connected?

Not that I've seen on their website. They indicate clearly that the "110" is an input BTU value and they state efficiency ratings in the range of 86-90%, so estimates could be made if you were willing to make assumptions. To get the efficiency ratings it seems like they would have had to determine actual boiler gross output levels, which would be a step toward determining maximum connected radiation. I don't want to use the K-word in the LL portion of the forum, so I'll say "another manufacturer" recommends an attached radiation load of about 70% of gross boiler output (to account for pickup factor, etc.).

Mike

I was curious what temp does your boiler get pulled down to when a zone is running? Is your HL=190 and LL=170 delta=10? I run HL 205, LL 180, delta 15 or 20. What is the lowest temp you see on the aquistat after a zone turned off? It should trip off at 160 but how much lower does it go? As others notes the red coals should just about reach the end of the grate to maximize heat output. I have neen running "small" rice coal which affects the airflow up through the coal so I'm not getting the heat I should, but still is excellent.

Careful running the feed adjuster screw all the way in will not give more heat. It will most likely do the opposite. It needs to be set so hot coals are to the edge but not falling into the ash pan. At the very least you are using way more coal than necessary. Your circ pumps should be wired so if you fall below the low setpoint the pumps do not run. If you get to far behind with radiators you will not catch up. It is better to circulate 180* water a shorter time than 130* water all the time. Its like getting behind the power curve in an airplane.

Option #1 - Upgrade to the 220 ~~~~ Option # 2 - If you have an extra chimney,buy a handfed stove (new or used) & hook to the second chimney,fire it when the coldest weather comes knocking.

What about sealing air leaks and adding insulation where possible,like the attic?

lzaharis wrote:Sounds like he will have to bite the bullet and add insulated an insulated water storage
buffer tank or two or three for now as it would be more economical.

A buffer tank will help from the thermal mass. The only other decision will be whether
to have another circulating pump between the buffer tank and the WL110 and two check
valves for the buffer tank

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Sometimes opportunity cost slaps you in the puss and
kicks you in the behind all at once.

If he has 160 gallons, let say that adds that much more
thermal mass and the stoker would continue to work
at a flat out balls to the wall burn with the second
circulating pump pushing the stored hot water through
the boiler to aid in heating the home

I have the same type of situation he has and I have a 100,000
BTU coal and wood boiler and kerosene for back up and when
its really cold it still cannot keep up when the wind is howling
on my mountain.

I filled half my firebox with firebrick to make more thermal
mass several years ago to aid in combustion as the chimney barely
rose above the peak of the house.

I had a chimney extension installed and it has made a huge difference
in draft and I sometimes cover the barometric damper on the oil boiler
flue pipe with aluminum foil.

Before I placed the firebrick in the boiler I put a 12 by 12 by 2 inch piece of channel iron
above the coal grate frame to keep the coal grates free and moving.

I have been waiting for a phone call from woodsman supply about a buying a triangular
coal grate shaker handle and that has been trying my patience.

I get a great burn with the stove coal now and I leave the ash pit
door open sometimes to keep the pump circulating as I only have
37 gallons of water to transfer heat through about 200 feet of
baseboard heat which I absolutely hate plus the pump that
balances the temperature between the two boilers.

I am burning about 100+- pounds of stove coal a day now
2 bag a day for $16.00 (depending on how cold it is) sometimes
I burn much less being frugal by shaking the grates every half
hour and pushing the fire down to the grates and throwing in a
5 quart pail of stove coal every couple of hours.

So far I have burned 2 tons of oiled chestnut coal at 240.00 480.00
3 bags of chestnut coal at 8.00 24.00
25 bags " Stove coal " 8.00 190.00
-----------
$594.00
plus oil budget payments of $202.00 per month
from august to May 1800.00 plus the cleanup payment
which is going to make me cringe

My last oil ticket from this past Saturday was downright scary as I had 125 gallons
delivered on Saturday and it was over $500.00 So I can just imagine that I would
have spent over $3,000+ dollars by now because of the cold and its not even March 1st.
My being on a fixed income is what is driving to to install a stoker simply because they
are a more efficient burner with forced draft combustion.

I am sure that the KAA-4-1 will handle the cold for me when I
am able to replace my 33 year old coal and wood boiler and the
27 year old Burderus oil boiler with it. I am sure I will be able to
sell them both.
.
I would just as soon buy 5 tons of oiled rice coal and spend 1,200.00 the first year(240.00 per ton)
and then go from there.

I can zero out the oil payments and save 2,400 dollars or more per year and that is more than
enough reason plus I have a great credit rating which helps.

How do you know 160 gallons will be sufficient? With the boiler stalling out at 136 deg, and if we assume a 4 gpm flow, my abacus says he's short by over 80k btu/hr of gross boiler output needed to power the radiators. It seems like 160 gallons might buy a little time, but a cold snap of any significant duration will still cause the house to get cold.

Mike

Pacowy wrote: but a cold snap of any significant duration will still cause the house to get cold.

Mike

We sure have had those "significant duration cold spells" this winter,especially this Feb..Best to get it figured out now as to what is needed for keeping warm during these brutal cold spells so a plan can get carried out B4 next winter season.

I agree, I don't understand how storing heat will help unless you can store it on a warm day and use it on a cold day.. But is that even practical? It seems to me he is just lacking BTU production.

Rob suggested cleaning the boiler. Go after the interior of the fire box with a wire brush and scour the hell out of it. If you have fly ash build up in there, this will help, at least some.

My no-expert opinion on heat storage is this ~~~~~~ an extra tank of hot water will even out the demand on the boiler for the high heat load times like on a cold morning when you decide to shower as well. An extra tank of hot water will not turn a less than adequate boiler into a super- boiler ! The extra tank of hot water can only store x amount of BTU's that will only last for a short period of time when demand is high,it will not extend those extra BTU's for hours when the boiler is obviously too small.

Slow the flow down. If you have zones, chose which ones that can take less flow(you don't mind them cooler) and shut down the valve to or from them. It is a long story that Oliver Power (I think) and I had with a poster about this same problem with a KA-4. Oliver has one. Mine is a Harman VF-3000 and my son is running it just fine in this winter from hell in Maine. He has not changed the settings I left it at. I have 4 different kinds of radiation. One of the big things I do is make that sucker run as soon as there is a call for heat. For me it is when the cast iron radiators call, not sure if Oliver does this but we both jack up the high temp in cold weather to give us more stored energy. the boiler cannot take a surge of cold water at 10 GPM (just guessing) and catch up. Before the thing even fires up the cold water is being recirced and more cold water is coming in. Got ta channel Sting here. System balance and all that. Doesnt do any good to whip the water into a froth at warp speed. Much of this depends on if he has zones and not just a split system common in 70's houses.

Kevin