Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:26 pm

I have my box fan up behind the 80k now. I would think that unless I'm running the thing at full burn the 50K with It's blower should be enough. The 80K is just in case it isn't.
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:43 pm

When you gonna strike the match? :?: :?:
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:01 pm

I'm currently trying to figure out the aquastat, Honeywell L8024C. It seems to be working except I would think the C1, C2 terminals would run the circ pump when the T-stat terminals are shorted. I have the pump hooked to C1 and C2 and it doesn't come on when the T-stat calls for heat.
Anyway, once that problem is solved, it will be time to fill it up and see how many leaks there are. Once the leaks are fixed I will bang a flue pipe on it and fire it up.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:03 pm

Don, there will be no power across C1/C2 until the aquastat sees a temperature above the low limit setting.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:14 pm

Oh, yeah, I didn't think of that. If the boiler water is cold, the circ pump should NOT run until the stoker brings the water up to temp. So, the circ pump gets connected to C1 and C2 like I have it right?
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: whistlenut On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:25 pm

Don, don't let them make you launch the Yellow Fire Bomb before you are ready. Even a test fire is fine. I see you are wiring now, and I'll PM you with a couple answers to your questions.

Was that insulated pex 'Everything you hoped it would be?' Kinda want smoke a ciggy afterwards? It comes close to being the most fun you can have in the winter WITH your clothes on.

Usually we add a taco or other circ/zone panel to simplify things. You can get an 89A, 501, 502, 503 Taco or Honeywell or something similar for one additional circ, or if you are adding 2 or 3 more, a taco or argo would be nicer...all in one place, easy to wire, easy to test, fuse protected, transformers are built in....... I don't know about your Honeywell and am looking, but remember in the back of your mind that some of them don't start the circ until the aquastat reaches 140 degrees (or the low limit). Zero start ones let the boiler drop off, however you won't be going there.

Just as I was gonna send this, I saw Rob mentioning the circ energizing at the low limit. I never use the aquastat for circ control, simply because if the fire goes out for any reason, the circs are independent, on a different control, and can run in below freezing conditions. This is unusual for most heating guys, but I'm different that most heating guys. In 1976 I was called to a house that ran out of fuel. It was -23 and the wind was blowing. Every f***ing heating pipe INCLUDING the boiler froze and burst before we could get it back on line. We has a generator, fuel, filters etc. with us and still could not save it. (6 hrs after it was first found) That was the last time I wired anything to the boiler controls. 128,000 dollars in damage.......and the oil company had to EAT IT because the people were on 'auto=fill' AND someone forgot to fill it!!! Now the circs run all by themselves controlled only by the thermostat(same with zone valves). Running water will not freeze.....and yes in 1982 I went to a house that we had set up that way and the boiler was propane....and guess what....no auto fill. My thermometer read 17 degrees, and the heat pipes did not burst of freeze up. We have a hundred lb propane tank in the truck and 2 20's, so we ran a space heater (250K) off a 20lb and hooked our 75 foot rubber hose to the gas line outside and refired the boiler. The 250K heater had it warm before the boiler recovered, but it makes your heart pound!!!!



Taco Switching Relays:
Single Zone Taco Switching Relay (SR501) is a standard equipment for every installer and replaces any other switching relay from any manufacturer. Regular 2 through 6 zone models (SR502 through SR506) and expandable (-EXP) models offer the most effective, reliable and easy-to-use means of zoning with circulators and are installer's best choice.

Taco Zone Valve Controls:
These controls are designed for zoning with valves, such as Taco's 570 Gold series and offer easy-to read PC board layout, compatibility with nearly every 2, 3 or 4 wire zone valve brand and instant diagnostics through external LED's.

Honeywell Aquastats:
Various models of Honeywell Aqaustats (a.k.a. Aquastat Controllers) are designed to regulate and control boiler temperature, injection mixing circulators & valves, as swell as floating control mixing valves.

Honeywell Aquastat Relays:
When you need a controller which combines the functions of a switching relay and an aquastat (or an immersion type control), Honeywell Aquastat Relays are the all-in-one solution. All models come with a built-in transformer to provide power for the low voltage control circuit and select models are available with damper or zone valve control interface and terminals for adding remote low limn temperature regulator.

Honeywell TrueZONE system:
This equipment line is packed with features such as variable speed fan control, discharge air temperature staging and advanced dual fuel operation and presents a versatile and straightforward solution for control of heat pump, conventional or dual fuel systems.

Taco Boiler Reset Controls:
The major duty of these modules is to control the supply water temperature based on the outdoor temperature, thus matching the heat lost from the building is by the heat input to it. By using Taco boiler reset control, boiler's firing cycles are optimized, comfort level and savings are increased. There's no sophisticated wiring - simply connect the Taco PC700 series with any of the EXP switching relays, install the sensors and let the system do the job.

Low Water Cutoffs by Taco:
Low water cutoffs are standard probe-style controls which monitor the fluid level in boilers and engages when the water level is below the minimum safe operating level specified by the manufacturer.
Last edited by whistlenut on Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:28 pm

So, would the second circ pump be hooked to ZC and ZR?

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StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:45 pm

ZC and ZR are for additional zones, but you need a switching relay for each zone added.

http://s3.pexsupply.com/manuals/1289316 ... D_FILE.pdf

I am not in favor of the aquastat stopping the circulators either, I have my main zone wired to the aquastat, but the kitchen zone circulator runs independently.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: blrman07 On: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:37 am

Whistlenut is 1000% percent correct. In my previous life I spent 27 years as a boiler inspector for an insurance company in Chicago and it gets ugly cold there. I can't tell you how many buildings turned into popsicles and frozen solid because the circulators were wired to the aquastat and wouldn't run if the boiler water was below the lower set point.

The prevailing theory was if the water was cold, why use the electricity to circulate it to the rads? If you loose the fire for whatever reason and the water cools down then the water ain't gonna move. Water not moving in below freezing temp with piping on exterior walls means frozen and ruptured piping with a TON of water and piping damage. The worst I saw was in a high end three story apartment building on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago. Each floor had a tenant and each tenant had their own little cast iron boiler and self contained heating system. Lots of VERY high end furniture, art works, and very expensive personal possessions. The rent for one unit was insane.

The first two floors were protected by two story buildings on each side but the third floor was up in the breeze. Third floor tenant goes on vacation and the burner trips due to low gas pressure requiring a manual reset. No one there to reset it. Water temp drops below lower aquastat setting and flow stops. Flow stopped and it hit -10 that night with a steady 20 knot wind. Frozen CPVC (yep a non code installation ) pipes ruptured and the water flow started. By the time it was shut down water flowed through the ceiling in the lower two units and did over a quarter mill in damage to the building alone.

All because the landlord wanted to save a few cents of electricity and put the cheapest piping possible in the systems.

Save yourself some aggravation and heartache down the road and wire the circ pumps to be triggered off of T stats not aquastats.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, using a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly stove in the church
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:10 pm

This morning started with such promise. I was very confident that I could finish up a few things and fire this boiler today. After completing the wiring, everything went in the toilet!!!

My plan was to first fill the boiler and flush it. Since I don't yet have water in the garage, I was going to put a garden hose on the washing machine cold water hookup and run the hose to the boiler fill. The shutoff didn't,,, I got sprayed with water. Not to worry, ran downstairs and found a cold water shutoff that did shut off. Filled the boiler, then water started coming out of the DHW coil!!! Guess I don't have to worry about glogging it with hard water!! Installed plugs in the coil and flushed the boiler. got nice clear water after about 10 minutes.

Then I noticed A nice leak between the boiler and zone drains!

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That one seeps, so I could still fire it up and see if it stops.
Then I saw 2 leaks in the header! These two are dripp dripp dripp and NOT going to go away. A good bit of pipe has to come apart to fix these three.

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At this point I had decided to fire the boiler anyway and fix these leaks later. Then I opend the zone valves, LEAKS! I fixed these leaks by tightening fittings and unions.

Then I saw this!

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Pinhole tubing leak in the 80K heatexchanger. That killed it for me. I put the hose back on and drained evreything.

So, I've either got to solder the coil or send it back. In the mean time I guess it will fix my other leaks.

It's beer time!!!

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:38 pm

Don

Dont think for one minute that your the first one to have that kinda luck. Just wait till manana and have another go at it. Cant imagine the hole in the heat exchanger but Id take it back and get a different one if not a different brand! thats booshyt. might want to add an extra union or two when you put the iron back together , just in case :roll: :)
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:51 pm

I battled with several leaks at the beginning. You are not alone.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:57 pm

Don, on my first boiler install I had a few leaks. On my second I had two, and on the next three I have had one each. Still haven't had a zero leak install, but at least the last one was due to a bad fitting. I have also had a DHW coil that leaked.

The coil and heat exchanger leaks aren't your fault, and the leaks at threaded connections might be due to poor threads...if I may make a suggestion, it is to use a better thread sealant. I have NEVER had a leak at a threaded connection since I switched to GRRIP pipe dope. I also like to put a few wraps of Teflon tape on the male threads before I coat it with dope.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:52 pm

Agreed, good teflon tape on the male threads, and forget the cheap stuff made in Red China. Get the good tape, and coat the female threads with good pipe dope, make sure to get it into the root of the threads. I had 2 leaks with the EFM, one was the reducer right at the boiler return, thankfully that stopped once the boiler got hot, and the other was a sweat elbow that I dry fitted and then forgot to sweat. :oops:
Check all the threads for burrs or just crappy quality. Don't get worked up, it happens to all of us!

That heat exchanger should have been pressure tested before it was shipped. Send it back!!!

I am always surprised when I don't have leaks.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:44 pm

OK, After yesterdays problems I'm back in buisness today! Everything is wired and works. Oops,,, I forgot about the timer, ho well I'll figure that out later. I'm down to 2 leaks, the one at the bottom of the return.

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I will fix that tomorrow.
And this one in the bypass. It's the union that is leaking NOT the pipe threads. we'll see if it can be tightened more when it's hot.

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I even fixed the heat exchanger leak. Once I cleaned that tube I could see that it's ugly, seems to be oxidized and the hole is actualy a rip in the copper. I managed to get a blob of solder to stick to it though. I will call tomorrow to see if they will replace this exchanger, I don't know how long my repair will last?

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I filled it up and ran the pump for about an hour. I took a long time for the air bleeders to stop hissing. Do the air bleeds get left open? or do you shut them when the system is bled?

Holding about 15 PSI.

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There will likely be a fire tomorrow afternoon!

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The wiring is a bit messy, but I will fix that up later.

-Don

And I did take Waldo's advice, put a shutoff and a union in the header while it was apart.
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Visit Lehigh Anthracite