Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:34 am

Don, you size the piping and circulators based on the heat load, not the size of the outlet on the boiler. 1" pex is generally good for about 70,000 btu's/hr. If there is room in the budget for 1.25", that is what I would use for the house.

You can use a single circulator for each zone. One for the house, one for the garage (get the ones with internal check valves). Plan on putting an air separator in the supply header coming out of the boiler. An air bleed at the highest point in each zone would be nice also.

The boiler bypass is a good idea, you can follow Keystoker's instructions on how to do it...OR, since this is not a system with high-mass radiation, you can just run a 1" pipe from the supply header to the unused return port. This will act like an equalizer and keep the boiler temperature uniform when it is just idling.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:59 am

I hope everyone has had a Merry Christmas.

As some of you know, last week I picked up a 3 grate Yellow Flame stoker boiler.
I have a good idea how to plum this thing , but I need help with some of the details.
For now the boiler will be in the garage. I plan to run insulated PEX up into the garage attic, then down into the basement to a heat exchanger that I will put in the hot air duct. Also I will have a Modine type heat exchanger with a blower hanging in the garage. Now the questions.

1) The boiler is about 100KBTU or so, if I put a 100KBTU exchanger in the duct and a 50KBTU in the garage, will the boiler handle it? Can I put a 100KBTU in the garage?

2) PEX sizing. The supply on this boiler looks like 1.25" and the return is 1.5", can I run 2x1" PEX through the attic? Or do I need 2x1.25"?

3) Do I need oxygen barrier PEX?

4) Do I need check valve or valves?

5) Do I need to run a boiler bypass?

6) What would be a good place for air bleeds in this crazy system that goes up through the attic?

7) I will be running 2 circ pumps down at the boiler return, I think that's the right place?

Thank you all for your help. I need to figure this out so I can order parts today. I would very much like to get this boiler fired in the next week and a half. After the painting is done I will post more pics.

Thank you,

Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:04 am

Don you are proceeding at lightning speed! Very impressive! It sounds like you have a good handle on the plumbing. Just a couple of suggestions. It's always nice to have shut off valves on either side of a circulator pump so if it has to be replaced you don't have to drain the system. Also shut off in the small pipe to the air bleeder is nice for the same reason.
Is you heat exchanger going in the supply or return duct? If it is in the return an air filter ahead of it a good idea. I also have my heat exchanger installed with unions so I can pull it out and clean it every couple of years. Again shut offs are your friends.
I'm chilling the beer now! :cheers:
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

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Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:05 am

Thanks for the reply Rob,

I was getting worried about getting responses on this thread, so I started a new thread with the pluming questions. Sounds like I will be buying 1.25" PEX.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:06 am

Not sure but I think the oxygen barrier type is what should be used. Rob will know.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:08 am

coalkirk wrote:Not sure but I think the oxygen barrier type is what should be used. Rob will know.


Good point. Yes, oxygen barrier pipe is a must.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:13 am

coalkirk wrote:Don you are proceeding at lightning speed! Very impressive! It sounds like you have a good handle on the plumbing. Just a couple of suggestions. It's always nice to have shut off valves on either side of a circulator pump so if it has to be replaced you don't have to drain the system. Also shut off in the small pipe to the air bleeder is nice for the same reason.
Is you heat exchanger going in the supply or return duct? If it is in the return an air filter ahead of it a good idea. I also have my heat exchanger installed with unions so I can pull it out and clean it every couple of years. Again shut offs are your friends.
I'm chilling the beer now! :cheers:

Roger that on the shut offs. The exchanger is going in the supply duct right above the Alaska 140 furnace. I will use the 1650CFM blower in the Alaska to push the air through the exchanger. I didn't think of the unions, that's a good idea.
Yea, get that beer chilled, I'm shoot'in for first fire by next weekend!

-Don

PS.
You can bring you new avatar with you!
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:15 am

I missed your other thread. Do you want to combine them?

They make pump mounting flanges with shutoff valves built in.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:18 am

pump.jpg
(145.32 KiB) Viewed 16 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]47252[/nepathumb]

Yup, like this one.
Sorry, new avatar will not be able to make it. :taz:
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:29 am

Rob R. wrote:I missed your other thread. Do you want to combine them?

They make pump mounting flanges with shutoff valves built in.

Yes we should combine them, if you could. I don't want to go bouncing back and forth to get pluming info.

I got 3 circ pumps with this unit, I don't think they have check valves. The mounting fanges with shut offs sound good.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:30 am

coalkirk wrote:
pump.jpg

Yup, like this one.
Sorry, new avatar will not be able to make it. :taz:

Darn!
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:39 am

Topics merged, sorry Rob I didn't realize you were probably about to do it.

Yes, oxygen barrier PEX is a must, and lots of valves to isolate different areas, makes repairs a lot easier.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:45 am

StokerDon wrote:
1) The boiler is about 100KBTU or so, if I put a 100KBTU exchanger in the duct and a 50KBTU in the garage, will the boiler handle it? Can I put a 100KBTU in the garage?Don

NO

StokerDon wrote:2) PEX sizing. The supply on this boiler looks like 1.25" and the return is 1.5", can I run 2x1" PEX through the attic? Or do I need
2x1.25"?Don

See answers by others -- it depends on the load
StokerDon wrote:3) Do I need oxygen barrier PEX?Don

yes
StokerDon wrote:4) Do I need check valve or valves?Don

It depends
StokerDon wrote:5) Do I need to run a boiler bypass?Don

it depends - My responses are limited - you must ask the right question
StokerDon wrote:6) What would be a good place for air bleeds in this crazy system that goes up through the attic?Don


At the top of the run
StokerDon wrote:7) I will be running 2 circ pumps down at the boiler return, I think that's the right place?Don

Don[/quote]
no - but your mileage may vary. Have you read the books?
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:48 am

StokerDon wrote:Thanks for the reply Rob,

I was getting worried about getting responses on this thread, so I started a new thread with the pluming questions. Sounds like I will be buying 1.25" PEX.

-Don



Not all of us work on Christmas
Image
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:05 am

Sting,

Yah, Sounds like I need to do a little more studying before I start buying.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Visit Lehigh Anthracite