Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 8:34 am

Don, you size the piping and circulators based on the heat load, not the size of the outlet on the boiler. 1" pex is generally good for about 70,000 btu's/hr. If there is room in the budget for 1.25", that is what I would use for the house.

You can use a single circulator for each zone. One for the house, one for the garage (get the ones with internal check valves). Plan on putting an air separator in the supply header coming out of the boiler. An air bleed at the highest point in each zone would be nice also.

The boiler bypass is a good idea, you can follow Keystoker's instructions on how to do it...OR, since this is not a system with high-mass radiation, you can just run a 1" pipe from the supply header to the unused return port. This will act like an equalizer and keep the boiler temperature uniform when it is just idling.


 
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StokerDon
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Post by StokerDon » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 8:59 am

I hope everyone has had a Merry Christmas.

As some of you know, last week I picked up a 3 grate Yellow Flame stoker boiler.
I have a good idea how to plum this thing , but I need help with some of the details.
For now the boiler will be in the garage. I plan to run insulated PEX up into the garage attic, then down into the basement to a heat exchanger that I will put in the hot air duct. Also I will have a Modine type heat exchanger with a blower hanging in the garage. Now the questions.

1) The boiler is about 100KBTU or so, if I put a 100KBTU exchanger in the duct and a 50KBTU in the garage, will the boiler handle it? Can I put a 100KBTU in the garage?

2) PEX sizing. The supply on this boiler looks like 1.25" and the return is 1.5", can I run 2x1" PEX through the attic? Or do I need 2x1.25"?

3) Do I need oxygen barrier PEX?

4) Do I need check valve or valves?

5) Do I need to run a boiler bypass?

6) What would be a good place for air bleeds in this crazy system that goes up through the attic?

7) I will be running 2 circ pumps down at the boiler return, I think that's the right place?

Thank you all for your help. I need to figure this out so I can order parts today. I would very much like to get this boiler fired in the next week and a half. After the painting is done I will post more pics.

Thank you,

Don

 
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coalkirk
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Post by coalkirk » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:04 am

Don you are proceeding at lightning speed! Very impressive! It sounds like you have a good handle on the plumbing. Just a couple of suggestions. It's always nice to have shut off valves on either side of a circulator pump so if it has to be replaced you don't have to drain the system. Also shut off in the small pipe to the air bleeder is nice for the same reason.
Is you heat exchanger going in the supply or return duct? If it is in the return an air filter ahead of it a good idea. I also have my heat exchanger installed with unions so I can pull it out and clean it every couple of years. Again shut offs are your friends.
I'm chilling the beer now! :cheers:

 
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StokerDon
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:05 am

Thanks for the reply Rob,

I was getting worried about getting responses on this thread, so I started a new thread with the pluming questions. Sounds like I will be buying 1.25" PEX.

-Don

 
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coalkirk
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Post by coalkirk » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:06 am

Not sure but I think the oxygen barrier type is what should be used. Rob will know.

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:08 am

coalkirk wrote:Not sure but I think the oxygen barrier type is what should be used. Rob will know.
Good point. Yes, oxygen barrier pipe is a must.

 
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StokerDon
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Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:13 am

coalkirk wrote:Don you are proceeding at lightning speed! Very impressive! It sounds like you have a good handle on the plumbing. Just a couple of suggestions. It's always nice to have shut off valves on either side of a circulator pump so if it has to be replaced you don't have to drain the system. Also shut off in the small pipe to the air bleeder is nice for the same reason.
Is you heat exchanger going in the supply or return duct? If it is in the return an air filter ahead of it a good idea. I also have my heat exchanger installed with unions so I can pull it out and clean it every couple of years. Again shut offs are your friends.
I'm chilling the beer now! :cheers:
Roger that on the shut offs. The exchanger is going in the supply duct right above the Alaska 140 furnace. I will use the 1650CFM blower in the Alaska to push the air through the exchanger. I didn't think of the unions, that's a good idea.
Yea, get that beer chilled, I'm shoot'in for first fire by next weekend!

-Don

PS.
You can bring you new avatar with you!


 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:15 am

I missed your other thread. Do you want to combine them?

They make pump mounting flanges with shutoff valves built in.

 
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coalkirk
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Post by coalkirk » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:18 am

pump.jpg
.JPG | 148.8KB | pump.jpg
Yup, like this one.
Sorry, new avatar will not be able to make it. :taz:

 
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StokerDon
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:29 am

Rob R. wrote:I missed your other thread. Do you want to combine them?

They make pump mounting flanges with shutoff valves built in.
Yes we should combine them, if you could. I don't want to go bouncing back and forth to get pluming info.

I got 3 circ pumps with this unit, I don't think they have check valves. The mounting fanges with shut offs sound good.

-Don

 
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StokerDon
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:30 am

coalkirk wrote:
pump.jpg
Yup, like this one.
Sorry, new avatar will not be able to make it. :taz:
Darn!

 
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CoalHeat
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Post by CoalHeat » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:39 am

Topics merged, sorry Rob I didn't realize you were probably about to do it.

Yes, oxygen barrier PEX is a must, and lots of valves to isolate different areas, makes repairs a lot easier.

 
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Sting
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Post by Sting » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:45 am

StokerDon wrote:
1) The boiler is about 100KBTU or so, if I put a 100KBTU exchanger in the duct and a 50KBTU in the garage, will the boiler handle it? Can I put a 100KBTU in the garage?Don
NO
StokerDon wrote: 2) PEX sizing. The supply on this boiler looks like 1.25" and the return is 1.5", can I run 2x1" PEX through the attic? Or do I need
2x1.25"?Don
See answers by others -- it depends on the load
StokerDon wrote: 3) Do I need oxygen barrier PEX?Don
yes
StokerDon wrote: 4) Do I need check valve or valves?Don
It depends
StokerDon wrote: 5) Do I need to run a boiler bypass?Don
it depends - My responses are limited - you must ask the right question
StokerDon wrote: 6) What would be a good place for air bleeds in this crazy system that goes up through the attic?Don
At the top of the run
StokerDon wrote: 7) I will be running 2 circ pumps down at the boiler return, I think that's the right place?Don
Don[/quote]
no - but your mileage may vary. Have you read the books?

 
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Sting
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Post by Sting » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 9:48 am

StokerDon wrote:Thanks for the reply Rob,

I was getting worried about getting responses on this thread, so I started a new thread with the pluming questions. Sounds like I will be buying 1.25" PEX.

-Don
Not all of us work on Christmas
Image

 
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StokerDon
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Posts: 7484
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Post by StokerDon » Thu. Dec. 26, 2013 10:05 am

Sting,

Yah, Sounds like I need to do a little more studying before I start buying.

-Don


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