Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:44 pm

Wow,

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I was out spending quality time with the scraper, the wirewheel and some paint for a few hours and I come back in to find all this nice info. I will be calling that ThermoPEX place in Fallston tomorrow morning. Hopefully they won't think I'm stealing pluming secrets!
The doors and frames needed a lot more wheeling and cleaning then I thought they would. It took all day and into the night to get them in paint. I've been so focused on this boiler, I totaly forgot about the Alaska. I went down stairs to get something, thought I would take a quick look in the hopper, EMPTY! I could see the paddle moving back and forth gasping for coal. I opened the door and there was a faint bit of light on the grate. I cranked the feed rate all the way up, through some coal on top, filled the hopper and it came back to life.
Tomorrow will be hopper restoration and placing the base and the boiler. My back hurts just think'in about it.
-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:08 pm

We Feed Animals ! Enjoy the Help ! Carry On,Stoker Don ! :dancing:
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:29 am

Hey Stoker Don! Here is a link to some insulated pex that might work well for you. The price is real good!

www.greatestsavingsdeals.com/material-h ... 75623.html
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:48 am

Thanks Scott, I will check it out.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:35 am

I called the ThermoPEX guy in Fallston. He had some intresting things to say. He doesn't currently have 1.25" in stock, wondered why I wanted to use 1.25". I told him what I was doing. He said he has been installing wood boilers for 20 years in homes and uses 1" all the way up to about 500KBTU's, he only uses 1.25" for warehouses. He does have the 1" in stock and I could pick it up today. The only problem is it's $12 a foot, thats about twice as much as the place in Wisconson. $1000 for PEX may blow the budget for this project. There is an Amish hardware & pluming supply place accross the river in Holtwood. I'm sure they deal with woodboilers. Being Amish, they don't have a website, I have to go there.
I wil be thinking of all this over the next few hours of grinding, wheeling and painting.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:26 pm

Just because one "lemming" only uses the wrong size - doesn't mean you need to join the flock and go off the cliff with the rest.

Wood boiler guys are not able to control their circulation temperatures - they start off with an inconstant flow of energy= so in the cold harsh light of the day - It makes No Difference if they use the wrong size distribution [or incorrect] system

Follow the path young Sky-walker
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:02 pm

Well,i am no expert on heating systems,i did design & install our current system with no professional help.We have an OWB heating 3 buildings & DHW for 2 houses all using 1 " Pex, including 1 pex pair that is over 500' till water gets back to the stove,that 500' run heats 1 hard to heat house & DHW & then goes on to #2 house to do the DHW b4 returning to the stove,with a Taco 007 circulator,we've been doing this since Sept. 06,also 1" pex to #2 house 160' round trip for heating,also 1"pex 160' round trip to our repair shop for lots,& lots of heat,no problems with heating ability or low water temps in 1" pex,apparently i should have used 4" pex (BIGGER IS BETTER). Where's the backhoe?,gotta tear it all up & go bigger ,sorry i don't follow that logic,but unfortunately we are heating with wood so maybe coal needs bigger pex???????????????????
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:40 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Well,i am no expert on heating systems,i did design & install our current system with no professional help.We have an OWB heating 3 buildings & DHW for 2 houses all using 1 " Pex, including 1 pex pair that is over 500' till water gets back to the stove,that 500' run heats 1 hard to heat house & DHW & then goes on to #2 house to do the DHW b4 returning to the stove,with a Taco 007 circulator,we've been doing this since Sept. 06,also 1" pex to #2 house 160' round trip for heating,also 1"pex 160' round trip to our repair shop for lots,& lots of heat,no problems with heating ability or low water temps in 1" pex,apparently i should have used 4" pex (BIGGER IS BETTER). Where's the backhoe?,gotta tear it all up & go bigger ,sorry i don't follow that logic,but unfortunately we are heating with wood so maybe coal needs bigger pex???????????????????


The "logic" is that you size the pipe and pump according to the load. Bigger is NOT better, more like "as big as necessary, as small as possible".

Just because something works for one house doesn't mean it will work for another. Whatever house you are heating has a heat load within the capabilities of your system...great. I bet if you were heating a spray-foam insulated doghouse with that OWB you wouldn't have used the same size pipe or pump.

True story - Last winter I had to help out a friend that was sitting in a cold house getting the death glare from his wife...imagine spending 10k to put a coal boiler in a detached garage only to find out that the 1" pex and Taco circulator he used was not adequate to move the heat to the house. The boiler was sitting in the garage at 200 degrees, ready to do its job but the system couldn't move the heat to the house. The flow rate was too low, and the radiation in the house could not get above 160 degrees on a subzero day. I had him swap the circulator to a Taco 011, and the system in the house promptly came up to 180 degrees and the house reached the thermostat setting. It still struggles on the -20 days, but at least he isn't getting the death glare any more. To use your statement, if he wants to get more heat into the house he needs to go get a backhoe and go bigger. If he had used 1.25" in the beginning, he could be using less electric to run the circulator and get the same or more heat to the house.

That reminds me, when looking at the cost of a system, make sure you pencil out the cost of running the circulators for 10 years or so.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:33 pm

The term is; Fault Tolerant Flow Rate :D
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:40 pm

My wife keeps trying to tell me that people do not get sarcasm,obviously that's true as you didn't either,we do not have an issue getting HOT water to the intended point.! My sarcastic ( BIGGER IS BETTER) was a reflection of the ( Lemming if you use 1" Pex) post. We have no problem getting serious heat from a 20x20 heat exchanger fed by 1" pex with a 007 circulator, as the saying goes , if you aint learning you is dead,i'm still learning,i guess i tend to forget you coal burners use warm water-120-160 ,we are using 180 which may then be a concern when we switch to coal.One doesn't need to say (you are crazy if you use 1' vs.1.25)just give an opinion based on your knowledge or give facts based on industry standards that do indeed work,as in 1,000's of OWB's working with 1" pex on very long runs,capable of pulling lots of heat from that 180* water running thru the 1" pex,not saying 1.25 isn't better,just pisses me off when people think their way of thinking is THE ONLY rite way!!!!!!!!! ex. dodge is better than ford is better than chevy is better than................ I would prefer to hear WHY to use bigger is better rather than to say someone is an idiot for doing the accepted way,rather than the "better way". Pencil out the cost of running a circulator -007=60 watts ,best use radiant heat for least operating cost,but that won't work in a shop with gasoline fumes,so back to getting heat into building safely.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:22 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote: i tend to forget you coal burners use warm water-120-160 ,we are using 180 which may then be a concern when we switch to coal


You can use whatever water temperature you need (as long as the pex can handle it). My system is designed to heat the house at -15 with 180 degree water.

windyhill4.2 wrote:just pisses me off when people think their way of thinking is THE ONLY rite way!!!!!!!!!


Me too. The only evidence of that I have seen in this thread is the guy that Don called and said he uses 1" for everything. I bet if someone called him back and said their house was cold it he would check EVERYTHING but the flow rate of the tubing...since changing it after the fact is a huge expense.

At the end of the day, if the load of the house comes in at 70,000 btu's per hour or less 1" pex should be fine.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:22 pm

Sting wrote:Just because one "lemming" only uses the wrong size - doesn't mean you need to join the flock and go off the cliff with the rest.

Wood boiler guys are not able to control their circulation temperatures - they start off with an inconstant flow of energy= so in the cold harsh light of the day - It makes No Difference if they use the wrong size distribution [or incorrect] system

Follow the path young Sky-walker

this is what i was referring to ,not about someone selling only one size,but "lemming" only uses the wrong size & wood boiler guys, most OWB are not boiler ,as a boiler is a closed system which the open system like we have is more rust prone.Unable to control circulation temps??? all that = wrong size is ok?????/You tell me that isn't opinionated without facts to back up accusations ??? We have had no trouble extracting the heat we need from 1 " pex,20x20 heat exchanger in our shop,works wonderful for wrong size pex !!! only thing we have found wrong with this whole system is the fuel..wood = too much work !!! But no liquid fuel since Sept. 2006 & that is the good part.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:33 pm

if heat load is less than 70,000 Btu 1" is ok ? if you are right on that we sure will have to rethink the size of coal boiler we eventually replace our OWB with,as that statement would indicate our shop has a less than 70,000 BTU demand which is very hard to believe,but good if true. Our house then would even have less than that 70k as it uses a smaller exchanger than the shop,I can only hope your formula is close to right,still learning.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:46 pm

OK OK I get it, no more that 70KBTU for 1" PEX. Some people disagee, I am going with 1.25". Now take it outside if you want to fight about it! This is a story about my Christmas present!



UPDATE TO FOLLOW!!!!!


Rev. Larry wrote-

Enjoy your Yellow Flame. It's not sexy, it isn't really appealing. It was a simple grey box and you aren't required to tend it on a regular basis. Just fill the hopper with rice coal and take out the ashes every two days and it will probably outlive you!

Rev. Larry

Sorry Rev. Larry, I disagree with the "not sexy" and " not appealing" parts.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler

PostBy: StokerDon On: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:00 pm

I'm sure you all remeber in late 60's and early 70's, the SCCA had a very popular racing series called the TRANS-AM. In this racing series were Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers. What you may not know is that Yellow Flame also came out with a competion version of there 3 grate stoker boiler called the "Yellow Flame Competion Series".



Anybody wana race??????
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StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler, Losch 475
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Visit Lehigh Anthracite