Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:46 am

Hear hear!

And for the record, the only reason I made that phone call was because I was working 60+ hours a week & commuting over an hour and a half round trip, and the little wifey needed to wash dishes and take a shower NOW. :D ;)
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: McGiever On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:56 am

Methane...maybe Keving and BIL will have some Luck w/ that fire after all. :lol:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:02 am

McG...Great Point! There's a cost-cutter fer 'ya !....Smits,Nooo ! Here I was misled to believe that you were into self-torture and the Mrs. had you bound and gagged in the bathroom the whole time the "Pro's" were violating your Home Grounds ! :lol: :rofl: Sometimes,the supposed Grace and Wisdom of our Age and Experience tells us that we have to Cave In and call for An Air Strike ! You just hope they don't drop their Ordnance on You ! :fear: ......Keving-can't wait to hear how deep this sucker's hanging down that casing ! At those temps,and with that inaccessibility,I highly recommend the higher quality 100psi + Burst rated Black Poly Well Flex Pipe and new Well Wire. You're probably going to have to build the whole deal inside a warm basement or structure just to be able to uncoil it and put it together with the new pump and water-proof connections. Have it ready to go at the well head and go like hell to get easily inserted before it gets board stiff ! I had the luxury of doing mine this Summer and was Lucky that I was only 82' down !
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !


Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:17 am

Well, they certainly dropped ordinance on me .... with no lube either! :sick: :mad:

:funny:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: whistlenut On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:56 am

Keving, I hope someone knows that an excavator will be a necessity and I'd be on the phone or showing up at someone's shop to see who is foolish enough to drive a backhoe,; probably to slippery for anything bigger, but the frost should not be too bad if it hasn't been driven on. We ripped 26" of frost yesterday for a footing to be poured on Monday. They have the ground thawing machine running on the blanketed area right now, and pour crete with pex active in the footings and walls...

Understand that when you pull the pump that the column in the pipe will freeze solid, even if you work quickly to change it, so some time back down in the well will be required to thaw it out again.
Usually an hour is sufficient. If they have a dawg at the house, make damned sure that pipe does not get dragged through any 'steamers' or frozen land mines. Same goes for a plumbers pinger.(for obvious reasons........septic guys have the same type of ping rigs). The steel snake and locator work if not too deep. ( It AIN'T fun on a good day.......)
If you have a local municipal water company, they usually will help out anyone needing their locator equipment. Many contractors have locators behind the seat in their rigs.
If he had a coal boiler, you could run a coil of pex over the area with a frost blanket and check it out later in the day......all thawed out.......
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:16 pm

Kev

That well head is likely to be 4 or 5 foot in the ground and most likely wanders sideways after it leaves the house so the radius thing is probably a no go. When you do find it extend the casing above ground or flush with ground and put cap back on. If it does turn up in the drive get a small manhole extension and make the top of that flush and recess the well cap down a foot and then cover everything with the manhole cover . If you cant find a manhole cover go to welding shop and have them cut one from plate and weld " WELL" on the top. In fact use a 12" chimney block for the extension and have the cap made. way cheaper.......
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:37 pm

[quote="Hambden Bob"]Helping a Cheap Miser in -10*....You have my utmost Condolences and Respect. You must really Love your Sister and Her Family. All our wells have the casing rising above ground for period chlorination,sanitization and well pump removal.

Another reason for the casing to be above grade is makeup air for the pump to operate, according to my well guy.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Dennis On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Since you have the hole dug 1/2 way continue finding the buried pipe then feel the pipe when the snake is there,put some tape on the sake and continue to push till you hit the pitless,and measure to the well casing.Good luck and have a kero torpedo heater for yourselfs also.When you do find the casing make sure you cover it up with straw/hay and lay some type of blanket or even an old carpet then cover with a tarp/plastic to contain what heat is in the ground as not to freeze the pipes and have more problems.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: McGiever On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:13 pm

How do you know that you must pull this pump, other than no water since New Years Eve?

Is this a 2 or 3 wire pump? 3 wire has a control/starter box...2 wire does not.
Both would have a pressure switch.
Do you have access to an Ohms meter or muti-meter?


See what I'm getting at...pressure switch or 3 wire control box might be bad and nobody needs in that well to fix this. :roll:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
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Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Keving On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:27 pm

Hello All, back from the arctic blast, forgive me if I don't address everyones comments, but I must say a big thank you for your input, I have read many good points that I would have not given thought to, I have pulled many pumps since my job is a maintenance guy at a complex that has 45 buildings but have never pulled one in the winter. And the only reason I am helping my wifes sisters husband is because he has helped me pull two Axeman boilers from two hellish basements and up two flights of stairs. He is only a phone call away when I need help and is never to busy to give me a hand, we are kind of like the odd couple, he is neat and tidy with a well groomed lawn and I dress like a bum and have a junk yard on my back lawn. I work with a lot of the local plumbers and electricians but I don't like to bug them unless I'm really desperate. There is no city water works or what not here, everyone has there own water system and most of the tradesman I know are more likely to have a 6 pack in the truck more so than a pinging device. I will live and die by the "I'll do it myself rule".
The well is only a 100' deep, drilled in the late 70's as far as we can tell, he has been blowing fueses to the point where they wouldn't hold any longer, I questioned him on how he could be sure it was the pump and asked him if he took any amperage readings etc. Based on the age and the fuse situation I didn't do any testing.
The metal detector turned out to be useless, because the pipe and casing were deeper than it would read. Once we got down below the frost line which was 30" in his driveway we could hear the snake sliding in the pipe and a light tapping. Not the kind of tapping I would expect, very light sounding. The noise was very deceiving as to where it was coming from, all we could do was dig, listen and dig some more. I probed with a long auger bit in a cordless drill but he had every dam rock from the coast of Maine under his driveway so the probing didn't seem like it was working until I hit a soft and hollow feeling place in the wall of the 4' deep hole we had dug. I focused my digging towards the soft spot. Digging was limited to a post hole digger and hanging upside down in the hole with a fox hole shovel. We ended up tunneling sideways under the frost by 2' but I found the well in the hollow spot that my drill had poked into. The top of the well head was down 4' in total.
In the meantime his neighbor who is a respected mason in the area stopped by to offer any help. We dug a maple syrup cooker out of the woods at his house, rolled it over the hole and stuck a big space heater in the end of it to thaw the soil over the area that we need to remove. Larry was anxious to keep digging at the frost, I told him to let it cook until morning and then we will have another session. I don't mind digging but chipping on a ice berg is not my cup of tea. Since he drives a sporty car I took him to the gas station in my truck so he could stock up on Kero for the space heater. We had another helpful neighbor stop by whom wanted to fill the hole with black powder and blast it, I think he has been watching to much reality tv. Larry was very happy to see the top of his well. He is the sharp dresser in the photos.
I do have a puller for the pitless adapter. I keep one hanging in a tree behind the house. Everyone knows its there and it gets used often. Luckily the last guy to use it brought it back. I hope the pull is uneventful but in these temps taking a leak can be a task so who knows. I do think rigging the new pump inside will be a must but I have a propane heat shrink gun for shrink wrapping boats that works good on stubborn pipes.
I think a riser is also a very good idea. And then there is the obvious, to measure it and write the measurements on the electric panel door. And one last side-note. The whole time we were digging today we were looking at a John Deere excavator parked across the road at a house that is being renovated. Swallow your pride and call the owner of the machine or keep digging? I did just as my father and my grandfather would have done.
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Keving
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Coal Size/Type: Kimmel pea coal

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:43 pm

You're a Damn Good Man,Keving ! :up: Many Thanx for your update! I'm glad you and your BIL run on a 2-way Street. 1-ways never cut it ! I'd say you've got the Attack Plan well(no pun intended!) in hand ! :cheers:
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: McGiever On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:45 pm

Can you answer, 2 wire or 3 wire submersible pump motor?

He'll need to know answer before he gets a replacement.

Before you pull pump, and after disconnecting the wire splices, read ohms on cable back into house as well as ohms down cable to pump motor.
This will prove where the fuse blower is...down well at pump motor or in the wiring back into house. ASS U ME (assume) nothing. ;)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:52 pm

Many times the problem he describes is damage to the wiring down in the well. Everytime that pump kicks on the torque twists the wiring and can cause it to wear away insulation and short out on the casing.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Keving On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:57 pm

Hi Mcgiever, It is a two wire pump, no control box. Very good suggestion on checking the wire. Hopefully the wire is in a pipe of its own so that we can pull a new one through but I'm not counting on it. The smaller pumps are carried locally at the hardware stores so he should be able to pick one up quickly. I suspect he will need to get a new head seal as well.
Coalkirk he will be replacing the pump, pipe and wire in the well. If it was put in 30 years ago I think it is due. If he doesn't the newness will wear off on the second pull.
Keving
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Coal Size/Type: Kimmel pea coal

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Dennis On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:58 pm

coalkirk wrote:Many times the problem he describes is damage to the wiring down in the well. Everytime that pump kicks on the torque twists the wiring and can cause it to wear away insulation and short out on the casing.

Yes and before returning the pipe back down in the casing,go to the plumbing supply and get those rings to keep the pipe and wiring from scraping the side of the casing
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size


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