Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Keving On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:04 pm

We tried hooking up a shallow well pump on the incoming line for the heck of it. I thought it might get him by until we got the pump pulled. With a 100' well I would assume his static level to be quite high. Couldn't get it to prime. Should I have been able to pull water through the dead pump and check valve?
Keving
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Coal Size/Type: Kimmel pea coal

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:15 pm

I'm just a Schmuck,but that seems like a long way to go through a lot of resistance. That's a tall head to me for a shallow well pump. I think you took a good shot at it. Our Guys here will be able to give you a more fact based opinion than me. :)
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Keving On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:20 pm

I knew it would be a long shot Bob but I thought it was worth a try, I keep a shallow well pump all rigged with a pressure tank that I use for pumping not toxic anti-freeze into buildings when I shut them down for the winter. One of the fellows that works with me has been plumbing for 30 years but said he never heard of anyone trying to do it and wasn't sure if it would pull or not. It didn't work for me but I am curios if it should have or if anyone else has ever tried to do such a stunt.
Keving
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Coal Size/Type: Kimmel pea coal


Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:30 pm

Keving wrote:I knew it would be a long shot Bob but I thought it was worth a try, I keep a shallow well pump all rigged with a pressure tank that I use for pumping not toxic anti-freeze into buildings when I shut them down for the winter. One of the fellows that works with me has been plumbing for 30 years but said he never heard of anyone trying to do it and wasn't sure if it would pull or not. It didn't work for me but I am curios if it should have or if anyone else has ever tried to do such a stunt.

I'm curious too. The same question occurred to me when reading the "off-the-grid" thread a couple weeks ago, and experiencing our recent ice-storm power outage. If a shallow-well pump will pull through whatever valving is in the deep-well pump, then I could just cut into the plastic pipe in my cellar, fit a tee and a couple shutoff valves, and install an old-fashioned hand pump. Should work as long as (1) the water table in the well is within 20 or (theoretically) 30 feet of the surface and (2) there is not a lot of resistance in the deep-well pump.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:39 pm

P.S. I'm sure you know this, but: have a new o-ring on hand for refitting the pitless adapter. That almost stopped the guy who changed out my pump a few years ago. We put it all back together and flipped the breaker and you could hear a gusher inside the casing. He scrounged around in his truck and found a ring the right size and all was right with the world again. AND it was summertime. :lol:

Some of the well guys here have a big reel rig set up inside a heated truck, so as long as they can back up to the well they can do the operation in relative comfort even in the winter.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Keving On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:11 pm

Rberg that's another good point, now that you mention it I think that happened to me about 12 years ago when I put in my pump. I just talked with Larrys wife and she said he has been clearing around the well head from down in the hole and it sounds like his setup does not have a pitless and comes out through the seal and into a plastic elbow. That explains why we couldn't hear the snake hitting the pitless. I told him to let the heat do its job but I think he is part woodpecker. He loves to peck at that frost.
With the temps you have been seeing I can see why they would need a warm and sheltered environment for pulling pumps. I hope we get up into the twenties as they are forecasting tomorrow, it will be a welcome relief and make playing in the water more tolerable.
Keving
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Coal Size/Type: Kimmel pea coal

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: oliver power On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:29 pm

Keving wrote:We tried hooking up a shallow well pump on the incoming line for the heck of it. I thought it might get him by until we got the pump pulled. With a 100' well I would assume his static level to be quite high. Couldn't get it to prime. Should I have been able to pull water through the dead pump and check valve?
I believe a shallow well pump is good down to 30 - 35 feet. Or, is it 25 - 30 feet. It's been a while. Kind of rusty. A hand pitcher pump is something like 12 - 15 feet.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:52 pm

I remember working in 5* with water...
6 foot hole, welder, sump, tarp and a diesel heater...
At least they got an excavator to dig the hole...
I was just the helper and smarter than the rest they had to choose from...
but the weld had to be good...
The pumps were said to have to develop 800 PSI...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Short Bus On: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:28 am

Rental outfits have some propane thawing units for grave digging. The favorite here is a boiler and laying tubing on the ground under some special blankets for large areas. Around here people like to use roll plastic pipe to hang the pump on, real helpful when pulling since there are no joints. If you go the plastic route use the brass fitting they recommend, otherwise electrolysis seams to eat everything fairly fast. I didn't think it was good idea so I used iron pipe. I understand there is some threaded plastic out there that is recommended for hanging submersible pumps. I think most submersibles are four wire now, but that's easy you can lay wire in conduit on the surface till spring. You guys are working hard and I'm glad I'm not on your call list. Of course being my friend isn't easy either I call people in the middle of the night to help move heavy patients into the ambulance. :|
Short Bus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kewanee boiler with Anchor stoker
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut / Sub-bituminous C
Other Heating: Propane wall furnace back up only

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:06 am

Short B.,well understood on the 0330 transport to the Hospital ! Undermanned is no way to Load & Go ! Keving's got some Great Advice from everyone here ! All he needs is about 40 to 60 more degrees and he'd be a much happier Waterman ! Coffee and Soup Up Mighty K. ! :up:
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:22 am

If the winds not an issue one of those portable tents would be nice.
When I was working part time body snatcher for awhile we got a call for a floater on a real cold night, Pittsburgh has a special boat with a door to get close to the water & this big boy was no way gonna get pulled aboard so we towed him to a ramp. The 4WD police van couldn't get traction so we called the impound tow & slid the guy until we could get him on a tilt bed, tarped him & took him to the morgue & left it in the lot for the daylight guys.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Keving On: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:10 pm

A night with a electric heater in the hole and it was a different story this morning. We goon spooned the hole out to where I could get at the head seal. Amazingly everything came apart quite easily. We pulled the pump, made a shopping list and hit four of the local hardware stores to get everything we needed to put her back together. There were no torque arrestors on the existing pump, the wires were chafed in places, it was 112' deep and pulled very easily. We rigged the new pump with arrestors, new wire and new 160 lb. pipe. He had to buy a 300' roll of it to keep away from splicing which made him pucker a bit. The original pipe had been spliced but I didn't think it was a good idea, I'm not lucky enough to get away with that. Ohms tested the wire coming from the house and found no sign of a short. Temps shot up to 18 degrees which made unrolling the pipe go without much wrestling. Put in a new throw switch in the basement, threw the switch and made his wife happier than if she had got a diamond ring. As Red Green always says "If they can't find ya handsome, at least they can find ya handy".
I think I have accrued some home made cookie credits and another Axeman move or two.
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Keving
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Coal Size/Type: Kimmel pea coal

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:20 pm

Christ,Ya' look like a Tunnel Rat ! Stout Job,my Friend ! No Splices serves You well(No Pun Intended!) toothy Nice Finish To A Rottenly Timed Occurrence ! Perhaps you should stay inside and hang out at 68to72* for atleast 6 hours after puttin' the Smash to this Whopper ! :up:
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Keving On: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:26 pm

Bob, we did make reference to Hogans Heroes more than once. I guess you could call it a Deer Isle manhole. I do enjoy a good challenge every now and then but the second time around it would be a PITA. Now its back to my project list, I have two pallets of coal coming on Tuesday so I have to empty my trash can and get started on a coal bin tomorrow if I don't get sidetracked. Sounds like it could be a beach day tomorrow so I might say to heck with the coal bin and go bask in the sun and warm temps.
Keving
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130
Coal Size/Type: Kimmel pea coal

Re: Tips and Tricks for finding a buried well in -10 temps

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:51 pm

You're Showing Signs Of A Recovery ! Good Luck And Enjoy Before We Get The Icy"Slammer De Bootox" ! :dancing:
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !


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