New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:55 pm

I'm going to have to look into this. What a GREAT idea! I'll bet it's pricey .... but, can you put a price tag on you & your family's safety?


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01 ... ts-target/
SMITTY
 
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: 009to090 On: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:19 pm

Cool!
009to090
 
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:12 pm

Glaser Safety Slugs have been around since about 1975, and they are nice also.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: Paulie On: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:01 pm

Could just learn to shoot. If you can not hit your target, you shouldn't own a gun. People miss because they do not practice. Any time a gun is needed would be a "high pressure" situation, just the
nature of violence. The larger question is "do you need one"? 99% don't. If they did , they would surely
practice more!
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: SMITTY On: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:26 pm

Even the best shooters, when faced with a life or death situation, CAN AND DO MISS. Law enforcement & military have to train hard to avoid this human reflex.

Simply "learning to shoot" isn't going to cut it. Unless you have the resources to train HARD every single day - even more so than law enforcement does, then there's a good probability that your NOT going to hit your target under stress, no matter how good you THINK you are with a pistol.

We can sit here in our comfortable computer chairs and debate this all day, making ourselves sound like Chuck Norris ..... but at the end of the day, most folks will piss themselves and freeze solid when faced with a life or death encounter. It's just human nature.

To say "I'll just ......(fill in the blank)" during a violent encounter because "I learned to shoot" is plain ignorant. Nobody aside from the HIGHLY trained PROFESSIONALS knows what they're going to do IF or when that moment comes.
SMITTY
 
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: Rwalker On: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:29 pm

Interesting post. Surprised it didn't get more responses then it did. Smitty, you make some very valid points. What we, as a whole, often forget is training for a life or death situation is just that, training. And, training for said situation requires far more then going to the range and shooting at some targets.

No matter how much you "train" your body knows it is just a training exercise and thus you are far more relaxed knowing that you most likely aren't going to be injured or killed. So you never really train at 100% because you simply cannot unless you are willing to be shot at.

Now, you can step it up a notch or 2. You can train with paint ball guns or bean bag rounds. Trust me, neither feel all that well when they hit you and there is a potential for some sort of minor injury. It still does not compare to live fire situations.

So how do we get around that? Well, first off we shoot and shoot often. Shoot from different positions, angles, etc. Fire from a laying on your back position, fire from the hip, quick draw, etc. Sprint hard for 20 seconds, then pull your weapon and empty the mag. See how accurate you are with a racing heart rate and breathing like a freight train. Place a target down range from the top of a 50 yard hill. Load your pistol, holster it, then sprint 50 yards straight up, draw your weapon, and empty the magazine in less then 3 seconds. Not the sprint, the shooting. :lol:

But we must also go outside of the range and train our minds and bodies to handle the stress of the moment of impact. Your brain is an amazing thing. Anyone who has learned to play the guitar can appreciate going from having to physically and painfully place their fingers on the frets to doing it smoothly and without looking. This is because the paths have been worn in your brain and it becomes second nature. Breathing and heart rate control, handling of your weapons be it edged or firearms, controlling panic, these are all paths that can be worn into the brain.

Sadly, many police officers do not train half as much as they should. Hence the reason they freeze when the moment of life or death arrives.

It isn't a hobby, it has to be a lifestyle that you eat, sleep, and breath.

With that, the ammo looks cool. If it works, even better.
Rwalker
 
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:43 pm

or you can shorten up a 69$ mossburg and fire a 3" turkey load. I shot the thing at a target 20 feet
the pattern got to 30" so I figure that anything commin through the door or up the stairs or worst case down the upstairs hallway aint makin it as long as I pull the trigger. Thats the part that worries me, never gettin off a shot! :?
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:43 pm

My choice is a 12 gauge with 00 buckshot...pretty wide margin for error.
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:52 pm

I like the concept, especially in an area like NY where you are limited to only 7rds. My only issue with the company offering 3 different rounds are with the lawsuits. Example Home owner shoots and kills intruder because the homeowner selected and chose to use the fatal round. The lawyer for the family of the intruder will argue that you had intentions to kill the intruder because you could have selected a non lethal round for defense. I don't like it but this is how it works. Especially in California or NY this would be an issue.
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: Rwalker On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:52 pm

waldo lemieux wrote:or you can shorten up a 69$ mossburg and fire a 3" turkey load. I shot the thing at a target 20 feet
the pattern got to 30" so I figure that anything commin through the door or up the stairs or worst case down the upstairs hallway aint makin it as long as I pull the trigger. Thats the part that worries me, never gettin off a shot! :?


You could, but you aren't carrying that anywhere. At least not with any comfort! Good idea for home defense maybe, but I will stick to my .45 ACP when carrying.

Another good drill you can do just in your house is holster your gun, unloaded of course, and set some sort of timer that beeps. I use an interval timer and set the work time for 7 seconds and the rest for 3 and every time it beeps, I pull my weapon. I change the times up so I cant anticipate the pull. It takes about 2000 movements for it to become second nature. You get fast and efficient at pulling your weapon and taking a defensive stance.

I am not really sure what a non-lethal round is. 7 .45 ACP FMJ are going to mess up your day. They don't have to be hollow points, but I prefer them. 8-)
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:16 pm

I remember the 2,000 movements thing being taught to me when I was learning to shift a Eaton-Fuller 8 speed for the first time. Repetition is the only way to train the brain. That, and experience.




Flyer5 wrote:I like the concept, especially in an area like NY where you are limited to only 7rds. My only issue with the company offering 3 different rounds are with the lawsuits. Example Home owner shoots and kills intruder because the homeowner selected and chose to use the fatal round. The lawyer for the family of the intruder will argue that you had intentions to kill the intruder because you could have selected a non lethal round for defense. I don't like it but this is how it works. Especially in California or NY this would be an issue.

Yeah excellent point there ... and you can include MA, RI, CT, MD, & IL to that short list of communist states that would rather us be victims. :mad: You can bet the state will pull that trick out of their hat, and with a jury pool of city dwellers, they'll lap it right up. Guess where you'll be sitting next? The Crossbar Motel. :(
SMITTY
 
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: Rwalker On: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:22 am

Sadly, in some states one must chose what is more important: potential arrest or the life of their family.

We shouldn't have to make that choice.
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: grumpy On: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:54 pm

How about this....



grumpy
 

Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:13 pm

Wow! A lot of you guys really missed out, I got all the training I ever or was it never really wanted & even got paid a little for it. As a bonus if you went to the right or was it wrong place you got more than enough stress & had others shooting back at you, what more could one want? The reality is I have seen combat experienced men for some reason all of a sudden freeze & quit returning fire, it's the human element & all the training or experience can't change that. There's still time for you young enough, always looking for a few good men & women, still can't get use to that last part. ;)
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Re: New high-tech ammo lowers miss probability under stress

PostBy: Rwalker On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:26 pm

samhill wrote:Wow! A lot of you guys really missed out, I got all the training I ever or was it never really wanted & even got paid a little for it. As a bonus if you went to the right or was it wrong place you got more than enough stress & had others shooting back at you, what more could one want? The reality is I have seen combat experienced men for some reason all of a sudden freeze & quit returning fire, it's the human element & all the training or experience can't change that. There's still time for you young enough, always looking for a few good men & women, still can't get use to that last part. ;)


I am going to go out on a limb here and say enlisting in the military in "your day", going through basic, and getting tossed into Vietnam probably did little to prepare someone for a home invasion/violent crime scenario. Many men went that had no desire to go. Just a hunch, but when the government drags you into a war you have no desire to be in you probably are only thinking of a few things. Those being #1-getting home and #2-not getting shot.

Big difference between the training they received and say the training professional soldiers receive today. Those who enjoy the job of killing, and this is just a guess, are most likely less apt to "freeze up and quit returning fire". The Special Forces type who eat, sleep, and breathe the business of ending lives.

Your entire Military tirade has become old and dried up. Many of us cannot enlist due to medical reasons. That doesn't make you any better then anyone else. With all your expert military training I would put my skills with a firearm, edged weapons, and in survival up against yours any day of the week. And I am just a lowly civilian.

I fear, however, that the liberal in you might have shook all that military training loose.
Rwalker
 
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