What Happened Post 1998 to Devastate Anthracite Production?

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Sun. Jan. 12, 2014 6:29 pm

dlj wrote:
But they can buy anthracite from Russia, Vietnam and North Korea. Why would they come to the eastern US?

dj

Maybe the others are not interested in accepting the US Dollars that China is swimming in, or Chinese Yuan? Or their price for anthracite isn't as good? Or their anthracite isn't as good. It takes a good grade of anthracite to become a 1:1 substitute for coke.

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Sun. Jan. 12, 2014 7:08 pm

And another recent news item that was also discussed here not long ago was that western Canada is about to access a large Anthracite coal field.

And western Canada is closer to China and already beyond the Panama Canal, not so for the eastern US.

waldo lemieux · Post by **waldo lemieux** » Sun. Jan. 12, 2014 7:35 pm

lsayre wrote:
dlj wrote:
But they can buy anthracite from Russia, Vietnam and North Korea. Why would they come to the eastern US?

dj
Maybe the others are not interested in accepting the US Dollars that China is swimming in, or Chinese Yuan? Or their price for anthracite isn't as good? Or their anthracite isn't as good. It takes a good grade of anthracite to become a 1:1 substitute for coke.

I think that they couldnt get enough with everything that was available. I was certainly the case with cement and steel.

dlj · Post by **dlj** » Sun. Jan. 12, 2014 9:19 pm

waldo lemieux wrote:
lsayre wrote:
Maybe the others are not interested in accepting the US Dollars that China is swimming in, or Chinese Yuan? Or their price for anthracite isn't as good? Or their anthracite isn't as good. It takes a good grade of anthracite to become a 1:1 substitute for coke.
I think that they couldnt get enough with everything that was available. I was certainly the case with cement and steel.

The largest reserves in the world for anthracite are in Russia followed by China, Ukraine and Vietnam. The US is number 10 in reserves of the top 10. Way below the top 5. All those countries take dollars for goods. China has good economic relations with them all also. It's my understanding from a friend of mine that used to work for Bethlehem Steel that we exhausted the good quality anthracite reserves in the eastern US that were used for steel production.

I just don't see the Chinese coming to Eastern PA for anthracite. I don't know where that idea came from.

dj

Hambden Bob · Post by **Hambden Bob** » Sun. Jan. 12, 2014 9:41 pm

I would've never believed that we'd have had a Majority of our Manufacturing performed in China ! On the heels of that thought,who knows what we're looking at prostituting out next. When you can ship Seatainers of goods from China to the U.S. and still make a wicked profit on those items,then all bets are off. I do believe we ship Liquified Natural Gas to them,so why not Anthracite for their specified needs...Interesting discourse on the Subject though !

dlj · Post by **dlj** » Sun. Jan. 12, 2014 10:35 pm

Hambden Bob wrote:I would've never believed that we'd have had a Majority of our Manufacturing performed in China ! On the heels of that thought,who knows what we're looking at prostituting out next. When you can ship Seatainers of goods from China to the U.S. and still make a wicked profit on those items,then all bets are off. I do believe we ship Liquified Natural Gas to them,so why not Anthracite for their specified needs...Interesting discourse on the Subject though !

HaHaHa - well I would have believed it... Liquefied Natural Gas is a bit different than anthracite. There is a lot of technology that goes into producing, containing and shipping LNG... The US is pretty high on the totem pole when it comes to that technology. So it does not surprise me we'd ship that. We also import it.

It would be my guess that it isn't the Chinese coming here to buy our anthracite, but rather US producers that may be trying to find ways to sell it into the international market. India has been undergoing a significant change in it's coal consumption, it used to be pretty much self-sufficient, but I understand that has changed due to internal political issues. Vietnam, one of the worlds largest suppliers of anthracite has been under-going a huge surge in manufacturing so it's internal reserves as being consumed more and more internally so less to export. North Korea has to be selling anthracite to China as well as Russia. The Ukraine mines I understand are also being re-developed increasing their export capabilities. There are a number of other players. Coal producers here must be looking to go into the international markets for selling. That would be my take... in a nutshell... didn't the Stockton mine get bought up by a British company?

dj

Hambden Bob · Post by **Hambden Bob** » Sun. Jan. 12, 2014 10:44 pm

Good Question-

No Market,No Sale,No matter how you push,pull or drag the Product. I'd say there's a little more to the U.S.Anthracite Market's use than your giving it Credit for. As far as Stockton and The Brit's,I couldn't tell you,and I'm not going to research it now. I do know that they've made inroads towards U.S. Power Corporation Ownership,and a Coal Tie wouldn't hurt them.

blrman07 · Post by **blrman07** » Mon. Jan. 13, 2014 8:12 am

Who would have thunk it that Viet Nam would be the worlds largest by far producer and exporter of anthracite coal. After looking at maps their number one customer is China and their number two customer is of all places Russia who have their own huge reserves.

Last article I read said that Vietnamese industry is cranking up and they could go from low internal use to using almost as much as they export in the next five years.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.

KLook · Post by **KLook** » Mon. Jan. 13, 2014 4:13 pm

Does anyone besides me have the thought that I would rather burn your coal today and have mine for tomorrow when you don't have any? I feel the same way about oil. We should burn every bit of Saudi/Arab oil we can and then let them return to being goat herders after. If a resource is going to run out(and I am not convinced it will), it is best to be the last one with it unless some new energy source makes it obsolete.

Kevin

buffalo bob · Post by **buffalo bob** » Mon. Jan. 13, 2014 5:19 pm

KLook wrote:Does anyone besides me have the thought that I would rather burn your coal today and have mine for tomorrow when you don't have any? I feel the same way about oil. We should burn every bit of Saudi/Arab oil we can and then let them return to being goat herders after. If a resource is going to run out(and I am not convinced it will), it is best to be the last one with it unless some new energy source makes it obsolete.

Kevin

ditto

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Mon. Jan. 13, 2014 5:27 pm

KLook wrote:Does anyone besides me have the thought that I would rather burn your coal today and have mine for tomorrow when you don't have any? I feel the same way about oil. We should burn every bit of Saudi/Arab oil we can and then let them return to being goat herders after. If a resource is going to run out(and I am not convinced it will), it is best to be the last one with it unless some new energy source makes it obsolete.

Kevin

But we don't burn much Saudi Arabian oil here in the USA. Most of our imported oil comes from Canada and Mexico/Latin America. Plus 40% comes from right here at home. We actually get as much of our oil from Africa as we do from Saudi Arabia.

tsb · Post by **tsb** » Tue. Jan. 14, 2014 6:17 pm

Chew on this for a while.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/01/ene ... or-two.php

Hambden Bob · Post by **Hambden Bob** » Tue. Jan. 14, 2014 10:14 pm

Thanx,TSB !

It was an uplifting read from a Coal Perspective.

Flyer5 · Post by **Flyer5** » Tue. Jan. 14, 2014 11:21 pm

I think coal will always be the most reliable and economical fuel for some country or at least any country smart enough to use it. I still don't understand the whole we cant burn coal here but China and other countries will burn more because manufacturing will follow it anyway. We will still get the so called dirty air from those countries along with everything else that follows.. Whats the difference. If we burn it and boost our competitive edge at least we will be burning it as responsible as we can. Our people in charge sure like to sport the blinders.

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Wed. Jan. 15, 2014 7:19 am

Flyer5 wrote:I think coal will always be the most reliable and economical fuel for some country or at least any country smart enough to use it. I still don't understand the whole we cant burn coal here but China and other countries will burn more because manufacturing will follow it anyway. We will still get the so called dirty air from those countries along with everything else that follows.. Whats the difference. If we burn it and boost our competitive edge at least we will be burning it as responsible as we can. Our people in charge sure like to sport the blinders.

Because China throws their tree hugging, anti-pollution liberals in prison so that they can work for free to make lead coated toys to sell to us.

Paul