Hyfire II vs AK 110

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:33 pm

Yep, water will always beat air in heat transfer, yawn, I've heard that a thousand times and of course it is very true. However, if the heat transfer with air circulation is enough then enough is enough. In fact even if you have a single POH device that is working for you it is true as convection works well. Now we deal with air cleanliness and that's something no one here seems to care about. God, even the EPA has worked out that the air quality in a home is a major hazard. :nana: Hello....... :bang:
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:40 pm

Simon, the poster has electric forced hot air. He could install a boiler and insert a coil into the plenum. A boiler makes a great investment, just look at the boilers listed here for sale. Not long ago I listed my stove for sale, nobody even made me an offer. I couldn't even give the stove away.
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:51 pm

EarthWindandFire wrote:Simon, the poster has electric forced hot air. He could install a boiler and insert a coil into the plenum. A boiler makes a great investment, just look at the boilers listed here for sale. Not long ago I listed my stove for sale, nobody even made me an offer. I couldn't even give the stove away.




I'll take it. :D
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

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Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:54 pm

Simon, the poster has electric forced hot air. He could install a boiler and insert a coil into the plenum.


So let me get this straight, you want to get him to spend $10,000 to heat some water and move it not very far. That sounds like a great investment. He could do that with an AnthraKing a lot more cheaply but whatever. Every heating decision should be colored by the purchasers actual needs. Sometimes even coal is not the right decision (I can't believe I just said that).
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: kstills On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:14 pm

I think the boiler vs furnace debate depends a great deal on dmo.

Hooking the Anthraking into the current heating system is a no brainer if he's going coal. It ties right into the existing duct work, will both raise the temperature throughout the house and lower his heating bills. By far that is the easiest and cheapest solution.

Leave the Electric furnace tied into the system (I'm assuming you have the footprint for both in the basement) and selling the house at a later date will not be an issue.

BTW, you'll pay for the AK 110 in about three years on fuel savings.

Moving to radiant heating sounds like a wish list type idea, but that will involve considerably more work, not to mention money. The boilers are more expensive, the time to staple up the PEX is quite a bit, the manifolds, valving and pumps are more complex to install, and as has been pointed out some of the staple up systems have not performed up to customer expectations.

However, you can't beat radiant heat. Just understand that retrofitting will be more expensive and take a lot more time than installing the coal furnace.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:17 pm

coalnewbie wrote:So let me get this straight, you want to get him to spend $10,000 to heat some water and move it not very far.


I already posted that the AK110 seemed like a good choice, but I am curious how you arrived at the 10k number. I thought there was about $500 difference between the AK110 and LL110?

What are people charging these days to trim out a boiler and hook up a single zone? :shock:
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: dmo On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:30 pm

First of all THANK YOU for all of the comments and please keep them coming. From what I have read I am at least in the ballpark with what I am thinking of installing. To answer a few questions:

There are 4 of us in the house, my wife and a 6 & 8 yo so this is a long term investment for us.

As far as the radiant heat goes that was just a way to lose hot water if I needed, I actually think having the unit down there and removing the ceiling insulation will help heat the floor.

I will be installing this with the help of my builder and our HVAC contractor that built the existing duct work.

When we do lose power I have a 6800 - 8500 Honda generator with a manual transfer switch so I can manage my panel to control the electric. This generator can't run the heat pump but it should be fine with a coal furnace and any circulating fans I believe.

The general consensus seems to be that I am crazy if I don't go with the AK-110.
Does the AK-110 include the heat jacket or a hood to go up to the duct work?
What is the footprint needed to house the AK-110?
What is the recommended power vent for the AK-110?
What is the best way to get hot water when the furnace is running (winter) and then what is the process to get hot water in the summer? Can my current tank be heated with the coil and also electric or do I need a separate tank?

Thanks again!
dmo
 

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: titleist1 On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:43 pm

dmo wrote:As far as the radiant heat goes that was just a way to lose hot water if I needed, I actually think having the unit down there and removing the ceiling insulation will help heat the floor.

I think you are correct about the floor being warmed from the radiant heat off the unit. I have actually put insulation in the basement ceiling above the stoker because without it the bedroom directly above it gets too hot (3/4" t&g hardwood flooring over 3/4" subfloor). The rest of the basement ceiling does not have insulation and the floors are warm enough in winter to walk around in bare feet.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:28 pm

dmo wrote:First of all THANK YOU for all of the comments and please keep them coming. From what I have read I am at least in the ballpark with what I am thinking of installing. To answer a few questions:

There are 4 of us in the house, my wife and a 6 & 8 yo so this is a long term investment for us.

As far as the radiant heat goes that was just a way to lose hot water if I needed, I actually think having the unit down there and removing the ceiling insulation will help heat the floor.

I will be installing this with the help of my builder and our HVAC contractor that built the existing duct work.

When we do lose power I have a 6800 - 8500 Honda generator with a manual transfer switch so I can manage my panel to control the electric. This generator can't run the heat pump but it should be fine with a coal furnace and any circulating fans I believe.

The general consensus seems to be that I am crazy if I don't go with the AK-110.
Does the AK-110 include the heat jacket or a hood to go up to the duct work?
What is the footprint needed to house the AK-110?
What is the recommended power vent for the AK-110?
What is the best way to get hot water when the furnace is running (winter) and then what is the process to get hot water in the summer? Can my current tank be heated with the coil and also electric or do I need a separate tank?

Thanks again!




First of all. Give us a clue as to where you are on a map. I promise Freetown Fred won't kidnap you. And welcome to the best heating forum on the planet. Dave


P.S. If you own sheep and are in NY keep the location a little vague. I can't guarantee their safety. :)
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: dmo On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:36 pm

Sorry for the missed information we are in Green Lane, PA which is 1 hour north of Philly. Our house is on a dirt road in the middle of the woods so we are not exposed to crazy winds or lake affect snow. No sheep at my house but there are plenty around!
dmo
 

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: kstills On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:38 pm

dmo wrote:Sorry for the missed information we are in Green Lane, PA which is 1 hour north of Philly. Our house is on a dirt road in the middle of the woods so we are not exposed to crazy winds or lake affect snow. No sheep at my house but there are plenty around!


A bit west of me. :)

Close enough to LL that you might get Matt or Dave to drop off your AA110.... ;)
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: Hot Rocks On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:53 pm

pm sent
Hot Rocks
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Hyfire II
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Water Coil

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:55 pm

coalnewbie wrote:
Simon, the poster has electric forced hot air. He could install a boiler and insert a coil into the plenum.


So let me get this straight, you want to get him to spend $10,000 to heat some water and move it not very far. That sounds like a great investment. He could do that with an AnthraKing a lot more cheaply but whatever. Every heating decision should be colored by the purchasers actual needs. Sometimes even coal is not the right decision (I can't believe I just said that).


Im sorry but CoalNewbs is right here (hes just a little more tactful about it than me toothy ... this poster does NOT have FHW or anything at the moment for water (he thought he might like to try some radiant fins (heated by water of course) under his kitchen floor to give heat to his kitchen (WRONG!!! that idea fails to the few folks i know tried it).... so, he shouldnt even be bother doing that... he darn well should not be bothered ripping out all his duct work, bringing in plumbers to plumb his whole entire house for HW baseboard simply so he can use a coal boiler instead of a coal furnace (might as well tell him to buy a new freeking house for gods sakes :mad: ).

Simple answer... AK110 and DONE! $3k total and do cartwheels down the street for the next 20 years
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:15 pm

How do you jump from a $250 water to air heat exchanger to installing radiators in the entire house? Who said anything about removing duct work? Don't jump to extremes and start slamming things without applying some common sense.

By the way, you friends that couldn't get radiant heat to work under a kitchen floor did something wrong...I put a coal boiler in my neighbors house this fall and the whole dam house is heated by underfloor radiant. Most comfortable house I have ever been in...1970's single story, built with electric baseboards. 130 degree water in the pex tubing, coal boiler just maintains 160 degrees and laughs at the load. I am not saying that is the system for everyone, but I can definitely say it works well when you install it properly.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Hyfire II vs AK 110

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:55 am

Since duct work is in place for warm air, it makes most sense to me to add on a forced air coal furnace. For DHW a hot water coil and temper tank set up. You could probably skip the water radiant floor heat idea since the unit will shed some heat in the basement to help keep floors warm. My furnace is directly under my kitchen and the linoleum floor feels warm on bare feet... :)

This would most likely be the easiest and most economical way from point A to point B..
Its up to you how much money and effort you want to invest.

As for the boiler.. Why install "half" a boiler system :? If I were install a boiler, I would want to plumb it thru the house. Converting it to air for the duct work doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.. Just seems like a lot of work and unnecessary cost and seems pretty complicated too..

Just my 2 cents worth, I'm no expert :lol:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

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