Hyfire II Vs AK 110

Lightning wrote:Just my 2 cents worth, I'm no expert

Me either. People do whatever they want anyway, I just try to outline the options.

Rob R. wrote:

Lightning wrote:Just my 2 cents worth, I'm no expert

Me either. People do whatever they want anyway, I just try to outline the options.

Yes sir, and you do very well with that. I've always respected your views.

Rob R. wrote:How do you jump from a $250 water to air heat exchanger to installing radiators in the entire house? Who said anything about removing duct work? Don't jump to extremes and start slamming things without applying some common sense.

By the way, you friends that couldn't get radiant heat to work under a kitchen floor did something wrong...I put a coal boiler in my neighbors house this fall and the whole dam house is heated by underfloor radiant. Most comfortable house I have ever been in...1970's single story, built with electric baseboards. 130 degree water in the pex tubing, coal boiler just maintains 160 degrees and laughs at the load. I am not saying that is the system for everyone, but I can definitely say it works well when you install it properly.

well... im no expert either but in my friends cases they only attempted to run a loop under their kitchen floor as an add-on to their existing HW baseboard system (the kitchen had no baseboard)... it just never worked good enough for them and they all eventually had to take more extreme measures like adding kick plate heaters instead. As lightning sayed... if their was an AK110 under these kitchen floors it would be a none issue anyways because that kitchen would be warmed with an ak110 underneath it than by any kick plate heaters available!

I guess plumbers could indeed go through the house/basement rafters without disturbing existing duct work (but they aint gonna be happy about it!)... I do agree fhw is more ideal to transfer heat in a perfect world... but anyone burning coal, talking about trying to save money, etc. is not someone who can simply have contractor crews blowing out their home with entire new infrastructure (and thats were talking about here when we say "change from FHA to FHW and then buy a Boiler and then spend the money to install that boiler" as newbs says.... this is 10's of thousands (not thousands) I could bring in a NG line from a mile away for that kinda money People with the kind of money to make changes like that generally cant be bothered with coal (they make so much at work it makes no sense for them to be bothered... best they keep working at making millions ).

This is a concept that LL bears in mind always! they understand the majority of the folks perusing functional, cost saving heat or central heating systems in their home are not wealthy people looking for a pretty ornament in their living room so they can "pretend" they are real "manly men" burning pellets from stop & shop but rather, they understand their customers need cheap, efficient, no frills, simply is better, solutions to save precious $$$$$

dcrane wrote: I do agree fhw is more ideal to transfer heat in a perfect world... but anyone burning coal, talking about trying to save money, etc. is not someone who can simply have contractor crews blowing out their home with entire new infrastructure (and thats were talking about here when we say "change from FHA to FHW and then buy a Boiler and then spend the money to install that boiler" as newbs says.... this is 10's of thousands (not thousands) I could bring in a NG line from a mile away for that kinda money

You obviously missed my point since you circled back to "entire new infrastructure". No one suggested that but you. I've installed half a dozen of these things in different homes and still have the invoices for the parts, but I'll go lay by my dish and let you keep handling the cost estimates.

"Manly men"? I think they install their own central heating systems

dmo, the AK110 sounds like the simplest install for your situation. Every decision is a compromise. Extra zones of heat and lots of hot water from a boiler would be nice, but at the cost of a more difficult installation. You could keep your existing water heater and preheat the water with the coil in the coal furnace, but make sure your installer pipes it so that you can bypass the coil when the furnace is not in use. You do NOT want to be sending cold water through a coil sitting in a coal appliance, it will likely collect condensation and cause corrosion.

Forum member coalnewbie is always talking about HEPA filters and ways to condition the air, so hopefully he will post some information in case you want to make some filtration upgrades at the same time the coal unit is installed.

Rob R. wrote:

dcrane wrote: I do agree fhw is more ideal to transfer heat in a perfect world... but anyone burning coal, talking about trying to save money, etc. is not someone who can simply have contractor crews blowing out their home with entire new infrastructure (and thats were talking about here when we say "change from FHA to FHW and then buy a Boiler and then spend the money to install that boiler" as newbs says.... this is 10's of thousands (not thousands) I could bring in a NG line from a mile away for that kinda money

You obviously missed my point since you circled back to "entire new infrastructure". No one suggested that but you. I've installed half a dozen of these things in different homes and still have the invoices for the parts, but I'll go lay by my dish and let you keep handling the cost estimates.

"Manly men"? I think they install their own central heating systems

dmo, the AK110 sounds like the simplest install for your situation. Every decision is a compromise. Extra zones of heat and lots of hot water from a boiler would be nice, but at the cost of a more difficult installation. You could keep your existing water heater and preheat the water with the coil in the coal furnace, but make sure your installer pipes it so that you can bypass the coil when the furnace is not in use. You do NOT want to be sending cold water through a coil sitting in a coal appliance, it will likely collect condensation and cause corrosion.

Forum member coalnewbie is always talking about HEPA filters and ways to condition the air, so hopefully he will post some information in case you want to make some filtration upgrades at the same time the coal unit is installed.

Does the AK have a DHW coil?

I don't believe it does... I don't know how it could for the price they charge on AK series (it would be impossible to achieve that and it continue to be the best value HAir coal furnace on the planet)
but it would very simply to make one... take a long ass copper pipe and have it bent into back and forth "S"'s and shove it over the combustion chamber yet under the insulation wrap BOOOM DONE... DHW coil for $47.00 ....

@Dave... I get $0.02 Cents everyone you make now! its my own design

LL just announced a coil kit will soon be available.

The prince of stokers is best left alone to do it's thing. I don't like coils in this app - my 0.02c. If you want filtration specifics drop me a PM as very few other posters seem interested.

Rob R. wrote:LL just announced a coil kit will soon be available.

NFW I want my .02 Cents! Dave you owe me a Cigar

Where did they announce this?

Rob R. wrote:LL just announced a coil kit will soon be available.

Actually no coil at this time. I have a possibility and prototype but have no where to test it. There were no takers so far. So if you buy an AK110 and want a coil at no monetary charge. I will supply the prototype and PRV and some other necessities. The only catch is you will have to have a science project and do some temperature measurements. If you are interested we can work something out. Give me a call at the shop tomorrow. Dave [Phone Number Removed]

Flyer5 wrote:

Rob R. wrote:LL just announced a coil kit will soon be available.

Actually no coil at this time. I have a possibility and prototype but have no where to test it. There were no takers so far. So if you buy an AK110 and want a coil at no monetary charge. I will supply the prototype and PRV and some other necessities. The only catch is you will have to have a science project and do some temperature measurements. If you are interested we can work something out. Give me a call at the shop tomorrow. Dave [Phone Number Removed]

Now if thats not a perfect customer match I don't know what is! customer needs an AK series and wants to try some HW add-on for DHW and a few under kitchen fins... company just happens to have a prototype ready to roll and needs a customer with an AK series god I love this forum!

nd needs a customer with an AK series god I love this forum!

I could volunteer but I need every BTU this thing can throw out when the weather gets really bitchy and I am loathe to change perfection. It would mean adding oxygen dihydride to the stove mechanicals ..... no way. HAHAHAHAHAHA, I slay myself. If Dave wishes to improve the stove he needs to start doodling on a napkin again.

Flyer5 wrote:
Actually no coil at this time. I have a possibility and prototype but have no where to test it. There were no takers so far. So if you buy an AK110 and want a coil at no monetary charge. I will supply the prototype and PRV and some other necessities. The only catch is you will have to have a science project and do some temperature measurements. If you are interested we can work something out. Give me a call at the shop tomorrow. Dave [Phone Number Removed]

How about supplying a 220 boiler and some modines and I'll test them out here in the shop and see if it is cheaper than the NG infared I have in here. Oh yeah and I need a modine for the spray booth too.........

Hey, I'll even set up a camera and some temp sensors and hook it up so you can monitor it from your shop...........

Rick