Welfare Pays..

Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:19 am

Only problem I have with making it legal is how many people are they going to kill to get the money to buy the drugs? The functional ones that do have jobs & such will just get worse, they have a addictive trait that most people do some can control it, some turn it into compulsive eating, working, sports, cleaning or any # of things. That & it will give big business just one more way to make $ off of those they would then control.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:43 am

samhill wrote:Only problem I have with making it legal is how many people are they going to kill to get the money to buy the drugs? The functional ones that do have jobs & such will just get worse, they have a addictive trait that most people do some can control it, some turn it into compulsive eating, working, sports, cleaning or any # of things. That & it will give big business just one more way to make $ off of those they would then control.




I think over time it would end up being self correcting. A lot more of them would be gone in short term.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:08 am

Flyer, I think you would be surprised of how many of what I call functional junkies there are, that's those that are able to lead a somewhat normal life. Most of the countries that I know of anyhow have certain areas for addicts & more or less control their environment but if you take into consideration the size difference between some countries they are smaller than some states. I always thought that just give it out for free but make it like Russian roulette with some lethal doses mixed in & every so often you would need to dispense one less dose, it's their choice if they want to play or not anyway it's much the same buying it off some jerk on a street corner, you just never know.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:49 pm

With the savings from all the enforcement we could afford to give it away. Tell the users no welfare or unemployment if your gettin dope. Piss test em' and give them an educational lecture every time they come in for more. Get the whole shootin match out of the shadows ,thats where all the cockroach activity is and the root problem is the cockroaches! :mad:
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:14 pm

I really think that a tie to the Gov. exists, most may not be aware of it but it just seems like every once in awhile a sacrificial lamb gets nabbed & then you hear no more of it. Years ago I knew some people that were cleaning up a small town on their own, they could find the dealers but the cops couldn't then soon they found out the cops were after them. I think the dealers were the cops source of extra money.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:21 pm

You do know who imports the most into this country?
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:29 pm

grumpy wrote:You do know who imports the most into this country?


CIA? DEA?
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:31 pm

samhill wrote:Only problem I have with making it legal is how many people are they going to kill to get the money to buy the drugs? The functional ones that do have jobs & such will just get worse, they have a addictive trait that most people do some can control it, some turn it into compulsive eating, working, sports, cleaning or any # of things. That & it will give big business just one more way to make $ off of those they would then control.


Then make food illegal. Make gyms illegal. I know people who compulsively do both and both will kill you eventually.

Stop trying to run people's lives.

IF someone steals or kills to get money for drugs, then deal with THAT issue.

How many people die every year trying to keep drugs illegal. Mexico is a hell hole because of it.
Last edited by jpete on Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:35 pm

No problem Jpete, I didn't know you felt that strongly I'll get the word out & perhaps many will move to RI, guess I should say many more.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:41 pm

jpete wrote:
grumpy wrote:You do know who imports the most into this country?


CIA? DEA?



There's a hell of a story in that answer..
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:51 pm

samhill wrote:No problem Jpete, I didn't know you felt that strongly I'll get the word out & perhaps many will move to RI, guess I should say many more.


So is it your opinion that deaths cause by the drug war are "better" than deaths if it were made illegal?

What are you trying to say?

I feel strongly about the waste of blood and treasure the drug war has been from day one.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:01 pm

Are you sure I said exactly that Jpete, I was referring that the cure of legalization may be as bad if not worse than the problem we have now. Most legal countries control the use in certain areas, kind of hard to do here & they monitor the areas, it costs money but more than likely less than ignoring it. There is no easy answer but it's bad enough with all the drunk drivers so now the answer will be all the high drivers? Also I'm pretty sure most legal drug countries have a universal health care of sorts, whose going to pay that cost with our system?
I think you meant made legal in your first statement.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: Davian On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:04 pm

jpete wrote:
samhill wrote:No problem Jpete, I didn't know you felt that strongly I'll get the word out & perhaps many will move to RI, guess I should say many more.


So is it your opinion that deaths cause by the drug war are "better" than deaths if it were made illegal?

What are you trying to say?

I feel strongly about the waste of blood and treasure the drug war has been from day one.


FWIW, the libertarian in me says that if you legalized and regulated it (especially quality control for manufacturing) there would be far less deaths from ODs. For one, a lot of overdoses are from a "hot dose"...in other words, the user gets used to a certain amount and then gets a purer amount and simply takes too much. QC would eliminate that issue among others.

Of course, there are other societal issues that comes from legalization as you have to deal with more addiction recovery and what not but that cost would be offset by a couple of factors to include taxation on the sale and manufacture as well as the far lower incarceration costs if you get rid of all the dealers, traffickers, manufacturers you currently have in local jails, state prisons, etc. Much like the end of Prohibition, you would eliminate the criminal element overnight (and coincidentally you'd stop funding terrorists that grow opium overseas so there's another fringe benefit).

And that doesn't even begin to delve into other legalization areas like marijuana, cocaine, speed (and all varieties of amphetamines), etc etc.

Let people make their own decisions. Much like seatbelts or making someone wear a helmet on a motorcycle, I don't see why the gov't should have a say in it. An adult should be able to make his/her own decisions if they do not hurt anyone else.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: Davian On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:06 pm

samhill wrote:Are you sure I said exactly that Jpete, I was referring that the cure of legalization may be as bad if not worse than the problem we have now. Most legal countries control the use in certain areas, kind of hard to do here & they monitor the areas, it costs money but more than likely less than ignoring it. There is no easy answer but it's bad enough with all the drunk drivers so now the answer will be all the high drivers? Also I'm pretty sure most legal drug countries have a universal health care of sorts, whose going to pay that cost with our system?
I think you meant made legal in your first statement.


Um, there are already plenty of "high" drivers and there are already laws on the books to deal with that...Driving under the Influence is the same for alcohol as it is for other illegal and legal drugs...if you are hopped up on legal percocet that you have a prescription for and cause an accident, you can and will still be charged with DUI. Lots of states have DUI - Alcohol and DUI - Drug as specific charges.
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Re: Welfare Pays..

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:07 pm

samhill wrote:Are you sure I said exactly that Jpete, I was referring that the cure of legalization may be as bad if not worse than the problem we have now. Most legal countries control the use in certain areas, kind of hard to do here & they monitor the areas, it costs money but more than likely less than ignoring it. There is no easy answer but it's bad enough with all the drunk drivers so now the answer will be all the high drivers? Also I'm pretty sure most legal drug countries have a universal health care of sorts, whose going to pay that cost with our system?


So if drunk drivers are a problem, are you advocating for bringing Prohibition back?

You don't make any sense and you are conflating several different issues.

Portugal decriminalized all drugs and it been a huge success. Maybe you think Americans are bigger degenerates than the Portugese?

http://content.time.com/time/health/art ... 46,00.html

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.


When you aren't supporting the prison industrial complex, there's plenty of money to help people who need it.

But keep pissing good money after bad. It's what we do best....
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