Ideas for Vehicles for Coal Pick up

 
MA_coal_fan
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Post by MA_coal_fan » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 4:13 pm

Hi all,

Brand new member here. Looks like a great bunch of folks. :D
I am looking for some ideas on how I might pick up bulk loose coal in the North east PA area. That's about 5 hrs from me down interstate 84.
I'd like to get at least 3 tons, maybe 4-5.
I had a thought of renting a diesel 26 ft. furniture moving truck and shoveling it in, but I am worried what it might do to the walls on the truck.
Maybe I could make or find bins that could then be loaded into the truck.
I have a full size GMC 3/4 ton pickup, and could definitely get some in there. Anyone have ideas on a rentable trailer that might carry the rest behind the pickup?

Thanks,

Brian


 
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Post by ken » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 4:20 pm

some guy was telling me about using one of the things they get corn out of the fields. it's like a hopper with a slide door at the bottom front to get the corn out. I don't know if it can be towed on an interstate or the wieght it will hold. there pretty big units.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 4:48 pm

You'll need something that can be loaded from the top if you want to save yourself some trouble, a stake body with some bins on it would be fine but you're going to have a hell of time getting them off unless you have a forklift. The furniture rental truck might work, with 24 feet and only 3 ton its not going to be stacked against the sides that much if at all but that's a whole lot of shoveling.

See if you can find some 55 gallon drums anywhere, preferably the plastic ones. You'll only need a trailer and/or the fruniture truck idea will work fine. You can still move them around with hand truck and each will hold about 400lbs. There was a guy selling them near here for $15 at one point, they had concentrated fruit juice in them. Empty of course..

 
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CoalHeat
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Post by CoalHeat » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 4:58 pm

Richard S. wrote:You'll need something that can be loaded from the top if you want to save yourself some trouble, a stake body with some bins on it would be fine but you're going to have a hell of time getting them off unless you have a forklift. The furniture rental truck might work, with 24 feet and only 3 ton its not going to be stacked against the sides that much if at all but that's a whole lot of shoveling.

See if you can find some 55 gallon drums anywhere, preferably the plastic ones. You'll only need a trailer and/or the fruniture truck idea will work fine. You can still move them around with hand truck and each will hold about 400lbs. There was a guy selling them near here for $15 at one point, they had concentrated fruit juice in them. Empty of course..
I have a number of those blue drums buried outside the house (drilled them full of holes with a holesaw) being utilized as drywells for gray water (SHHH!).

Oh yeah...why are they called "drywells" when they aren't dry? That's always bothered me.

 
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Post by gambler » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 7:11 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:
I have a number of those blue drums buried outside the house (drilled them full of holes with a holesaw) being utilized as drywells for gray water (SHHH!).

Oh yeah...why are they called "drywells" when they aren't dry? That's always bothered me.
Don't lie to us! You have them buried all right, and they are full of money. :lol:

 
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Post by Wardner » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 7:33 pm

You should tell us what you are using. Loose or bagged? Size?

A van type truck is fine for bagged if you have a forklift and pallet puller.

Industrial rental centers will rent small dump trailers. These are either tag-a-longs or fifth-wheel. You might even find something like that at Home Depot or Lowes. You could put a ton in the pickup and maybe three tons in the trailer. If you have a CDL, you could rent a medium sized dump truck good for 4-6 tons.

You could also buy a flat-top equipment trailer and fill it with barrels, colapsable totes, 275 gallon polyethylene totes, Gayloards, or a homemade box with or without a hoist. I could sell you all the 275 gallon totes you would need. They formerly contained de-iceing fluid from Logan Airport.

You could also try posting on uShip. It is a clearing site for shippers and truckers. I think it is an eBay company. Alot of short-haul small-loads make connections through that service. The shipper pays the listing fee.

I haven't had to buy coal yet. I get free coal from cellars. In fact, I got about a ton and a half from a garage in Northborough last summer. I got another six tons from cellars in NH and Boston.

I am a retired contractor and still have my 10-wheel International. It is unregistered and not worth the money to put it back on the road for an annual trip to PA. If I need to buy coal in the future, I will be looking for a dead-head tripping 18-wheel dump or bulk blower truck coming from NE PA. I could actually go into the coal business as I have four empty elevated silos. They used to hold blasting sand. I could become a "breaker" without having to crush and screen the coal.


.

 
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Post by Yanche » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 7:55 pm

MA_coal_fan wrote:I have a full size GMC 3/4 ton pickup, and could definitely get some in there. Anyone have ideas on a rentable trailer that might carry the rest behind the pickup?
Given you have a full size pickup a good choice would be a tandem axle 5 ton trailer. Look at construction sites for the kinds of trailers used to haul bob cats and small sized tracked excavators. Many of these trailers also serve as bulk cargo dump trailers. Look for concrete, landscape, brick paver, retaining wall installation contractors. Look for the rental companies name or if it's owned by the contractor make a deal with them directly. Be sure to have a electronic good brake controller installed in your pickup and the appropriate trailer hitch. Don't install a hitch until you have looked at trailers and see what's common in your area. You need a hitch that matches and has the right weight rating. Check http://www.reeseproducts.com/ for hitch types. Ideally you want a load leveling hitch. If you are anywhere near horse country, there will be lots of heavy low riding horse trailers. They might work but as Richard has said shoveling is lots of work.

The area southwest of Harrisburg PA grows a lot of apples and has some processing plants that turn the apples into apple juice. When the apples are not in season the apple juice is made from imported South American apple juice concentrate. It comes in heavy duty food grade plastic drums. It cost too much to ship the empty containers back so they are available cheap. Cut the top off and they are good for coal storage or hauling. Perhaps the same is true in the NY apple growing country.


 
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Post by Matthaus » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 8:31 pm

As Yanche suggested a double axle dump trailer can usually rented (or as in my case borrowed from a friend :) ). I included a couple pics with a ton of coal in the truck and 5 tons in the trailer. This trailer is the pintle hitch type so no load leveling. The total combined GVW in this case was nearing 25k.... so definitely not a good idea to be passing a lot of areas that are known for DOT stops. ;) Also you need a diesel if you don't want to creep up the hills.

Other options are renting the double axle Uhaul trailer with steel sides and adding some plywood, be prepared for shoveling though. The Uhaul trailers are way overbuilt and can handle 3 to 4 tons without too much risk.

I ended up shoveling the entire load shown due to where I wanted to put it. Only took around 2 hours to shovel, and nice exercise, although a little tough on the back. :P :roll:

Another idea is the plastic lined steel caged pallets that hold liquids, like these:
**Broken Link(s) Removed**I believe they would hold a little more than a ton, the top would have to be cut out for loading. You could slide them off the trailer and leave the coal in them.

Whatever you decide to do hauling 4 to 5 tons a trip will definitely make it worth your while to get the good stuff at $120 to $140 a ton (depending on breaker and time of year could even be cheaper). :)

 
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Post by CoalHeat » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 8:44 pm

gambler wrote:
Wood'nCoal wrote:
I have a number of those blue drums buried outside the house (drilled them full of holes with a holesaw) being utilized as drywells for gray water (SHHH!).

Oh yeah...why are they called "drywells" when they aren't dry? That's always bothered me.
Don't lie to us! You have them buried all right, and they are full of money. :lol:
I've been discovered! Does this mean I don't have to go to work anymore? :D
It's lean times when the ground freezes.

 
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Post by Scottscoaled » Tue. Jan. 22, 2008 11:47 pm

So how is the best way to secure the 55gallon drums. You would need 25 of them for 5 ton. Seems like they would be top heavy and hard to tie down. Just wonderingbecause I'm in the same boat. Scott :?

 
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Post by Wardner » Wed. Jan. 23, 2008 1:17 am

stokerscot wrote:So how is the best way to secure the 55gallon drums?
Use the cheapie C-clamps that plumbers and electricians use to attach hangers to steel beams. Doubt if they cost more than $1.00 a piece. You could probably find them in abundance at a scrap yard. I suppose some barrels could be nested to three other barrels but don't ask me to figure out how many clamps to use. A bucket of 50 might be enough.

If the truck body or trailer doesn't have sides, add ratchet straps over the barrels at four foot intervals. Two pieces of angle iron along the outside upper edge of the barrels might be a good idea. The DOT guys will think you have done a good job.

There will be spillage into the voids between barrels and coal will fill those. I suspect some of that will find its way off the trailer. The DOT and motorcycle riders won't like that. You might need to tarp everything if using a flatbed without sides.

 
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Post by SMITTY » Wed. Jan. 23, 2008 9:30 pm

If I could get my hands on a heavy-haul tractor with one of those walking-floor open-top trash trailers, I'd finance a 40 ton load & dump the mountain right in my yard. I'd be set for years & still be able to sell a good portion of it. Could probably do the entire run & still be legal (under 11 hours driving). I'd have to turn & burn QUICK though!

I looked into renting a tractor/trailer combo, but they'll only rent to businesses -- & require several forms of proof that you are actually a business. I'd have to buy my own, or buy a tri-axle dump with a tri-axle trailer. I'd have to go into the business if I were to invest that much cash. :shock:

Being a DIY'er to the extreme, it pisses me off that I have the license, & the ability, but not the TRUCK. (what the F... :D )

 
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Post by Wardner » Wed. Jan. 23, 2008 11:31 pm

I'd have to buy my own, or buy a tri-axle dump with a tri-axle trailer. I'd have to go into the business if I were to invest that much cash.
Smitty, you're dreaming.

How much coal, and at what price, do you think you would have to sell annually to break even?? Apart from owning the truck, you would need a secure coal yard, loader, delivery truck (maybe), maintenance budget, interest payments, $6000-$8000 in annual registration fees and insurance. You will need an adequate inventory with three or four coal grades. Each trip will cost you about $400 in consumables and tolls.

I doubt if MA, CT, NY, PA or NJ (?) will let you haul 40 tons. If they did, you will have to bend over when getting the permits.

I already have a ten-wheel truck and a 20 ton tag-a-long but I am retired and no longer have them on the road. I have a commercial location with four elevated silos that can hold over 100 tons. It is not even worth the effort to create a spreadsheet and a business plan. I know the volume would have to be well over 100 tons to make it worth my while. The demand for coal is not there yet.

You are better off with a small truck and trailer and haul a few surplus tons to offset your transportation expenses. Keep your day job.

I have been dreaming too. I think one solution might be to purchase a 100 ton coal hopper. I have no idea what it would cost to purchase and maintain it. I can't find any freight rates on the internet.

I know of several old coal yards in Lowell, MA where it could be left. Several still have the unloading pit where they used to roll in the belt conveyor. The hopper would be fitted with bulkheads to separate the different sizes. Apart from the hopper, one would only need a six wheel dump truck and a hopper conveyor running off the truck PTO/hydraulics. All the coal would stay in the hopper until conveyed and sold on the same day.

 
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Post by coalstoves » Thu. Jan. 24, 2008 12:01 am

When its all added up and paid for the price of Bagged Coal is extremely reasonable

 
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Post by Richard S. » Thu. Jan. 24, 2008 12:58 am

coalstoves wrote:When its all added up and paid for the price of Bagged Coal is extremely reasonable
Unless you're buying it locally here... prices are almost what they are paying out of state.


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