Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: Gary1 On: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:58 pm

I'm in the process of having a D S Machine kozy-King 400 funace installed in my basement and have a question about the smoke pipe. It would be approximately 4 feet in length, from the back of the furnace to the thimble, and have a rise of about 3 inches per foot. Would it be practical to have most of its 4 feet length double walled, to keep the high heat away from the ceiling floor joists which are about 15 inches above the smoke pipe, and still have a portion of the pipe single walled so that I can monitor its temperature? If so, how should it be configured? The first 2 feet from the back of the furnace double walled, then the next foot single walled, and the rest double walled again? Or the first 3 feet double walled and the last foot single walled?

My second question relates to coal usage. Due to its corrosive nature will it damage the copper flashing around my chimney over time? Thanks, and I look forward to your replies...Gary
Gary1
 

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:05 pm

I believe that any flue pipe that is within 18" of the ceiling must be double walled.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:13 pm

Just heat shield the floor joists with some sheet metal and take advantage of the heat thrown off the single wall pipe, its not like a wood flue where there is a danger of a chimney fire.
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20


Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:15 pm

I was 15 inches away from my ceiling joists so I installed a metal barrier with 1 inch spacers against the ceiling joist above the pipe and kept the pipe single wall. I wanted the radiant heat in my basement and not up the chimney!


sorry waldo, you're a faster typist
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:39 pm

The heat shield answer is the best idea!
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:12 pm

An answer to your flashing question. Over time the thin aluminum flashing they are selling does corrode a bit. I have changed my flashing twice in 33 years, once because I restacked the brick, and the second time because it actually corroded. The last time I thought I was doing a basic repoint andminor repair, and ended up replacing it all, had I known that before I started copper would of been used. When my final roof goes on (present one is 30 plus years, I will be installing copper. Both will outlast me :shock:
I also now coat the brick with a breathable water proofing, which is holding up well on the mortar joints, lot easier to go up with a brush a slap the clear on vs. repointing.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:51 am

Copper flashing? Wow your lucky, the only thing better than copper is lead flashing, that stuff is easy to work and lasts literally hundreds of years.

Copper holds up lot better than aluminum, I would say it would be fine, any ash should be rinsed off by melting snow or rain and wouldn't be there long enough to cause a problem.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: titleist1 On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:15 am

Regarding the copper, your flashing should be fine. I rigged a couple 14awg pieces of copper wire across the top of my stack to hold the chimney cap on two years ago. They crisscross the top of the chimney directly in line with the exhaust. I checked them a few weeks ago and they have not deteriorated at all.

The heat shield is the way to go. In the workshop used a piece of 8" flue pipe around the 6" and simply put 1" screws thru the 8" to space it away from the 6". The screws do not go into the 6", they just provide points for the 8" to sit on the 6" pipe.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:25 pm

carlherrnstein wrote:Copper flashing? Wow your lucky, the only thing better than copper is lead flashing, that stuff is easy to work and lasts literally hundreds of years.

Copper holds up lot better than aluminum, I would say it would be fine, any ash should be rinsed off by melting snow or rain and wouldn't be there long enough to cause a problem.


Copper is better than aluminum, but, anything that touches masonry should be lead. I use lead on everything. It will outlive your grandkids.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: Gary1 On: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:54 pm

Thanks to you all for your responses. I know a single walled pipe with a heat shield above it would be the easiest way out normally, but I have hot air and cold air return ductwork from my oil furnace in the way, so it wouln't be easy to install a shield. Also, I don't need the heat off a single walled pipe to heat my basement since I have over 80 feet of non-insulated ductwork that radiates heat and keeps my basement warm. The new furnace will be hooked into this ductwork. I like Titleist 1's idea of using an 8" pipe around an interior 6" pipe, held in place with 1" screws to maintain a 1" air gap. How do you seal the 1" gap at the end of the pipe that connects to the smoke collar of the furnace, with some type of metal cap? At any rate, I'm back to my original question which was how to configure a double walled pipe with a section that would be single walled so that I can monitor its heat output?

I'm glad to hear that coal usage won't ruin copper flashing. I know from forum postings that it will ruin galvanized and stainless steel flue pipes, so why don't they make copper flue pipes, or at least copper lined flue pipes? Is it because of cost?
Gary1
 

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:07 am

Gary1 wrote: How do you seal the 1" gap at the end of the pipe that connects to the smoke collar of the furnace, with some type of metal cap?


You don't seal it at either end, you want air to flow through that space. Cut the 8" about 4 inches short of the 6" and leave a couple inches at each end exposing the 6" flue pipe.

As for monitoring temp in the flue pipe, you can get a barbeque probe thermometer and insert it into the flue pipe. You can thread those right into the pipe. The couple inches at the stove side should be enough to insert the thermometer. They are only $10 - $12 at big box stores.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: Gary1 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:19 am

Thanks for the info Titleist1...Gary
Gary1
 

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: smokerdude On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:21 am

I think that Kozy king 400 takes an 8 inch pipe. Mine is a 300 and it takes a 7 incher.
smokerdude
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Alaska
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: DS Kozy King
Coal Size/Type: Nut and Rice

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: Gary1 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:22 am

Your right, smokerdude. The 400 does take an 8" pipe, so I'll need a 10" pipe around it. Both the 300 and 400 now use 8" pipes....Thanks, Gary
Gary1
 

Re: Questions concerning smoke pipe and coal usage

PostBy: J F Graham On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:32 am

Code is 18" from top of stove pipe to any combustible. I would highly recommend a mantle shield as it meets code. I believe it' called the" home saver mantle shield" But I could be wrong. Other methods may work , but this product meets code and reduces clearance to 9".
JF
J F Graham
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 160
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Pacific Energy wood stove / oil baseboard