My new Crawford!

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: BPatrick On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:41 pm

A couple of things as I have two and I'm getting to know the ins and outs really well.

*The entire backpipe needs to be airtight. It will greatly effect draft if over the fire or outside air seeps through at any point. As this is a base heater they do need a good draft. A little bit of over the fire is one thing but several points of air leak will dramatically effect the stove in baseheater mode.

*The postion of your exhaust pipe to the chimney is low. It will not effect your stove in baseheater mode at all because with backpipe dampener closed your gases and heat go through the inner barrel down and around the firebox and then out the bottom of the backpipe and then up to exit out. Now the area where the firepot meets the base of the stove must be airtight or you'll have issues with the stove going into baseheater mode and holding the temps. This is the area where my Crawford has issues. Along with some areas of the stove where air was getting in. Once I sealed the over the fire air, even with a seal issue by the fire pot, it didn't really effect the stove. They work well even with minor problems. Over the fire air seeping in is your worst enemy because it cools your air exiting the stove and slows the draft and then cools the stove.

*Please check and see if this is the correct back pipe for the stove. On both my Crawford base heaters, the exhaust exit to the chimney is higher, look at my threads and William's, it's right at the top on the other side of the direct/indirect (base heater) flap. Someone may have put this one on but I don't think it's correct. You have the collar, you can have the exhaust exit raised and the barrel remade. Again, in base heater mode it will not hurt the stove, but in start up mode or direct draft you could have issues. I'd use Cowboy Charcoal and fluid to get a hot fire immediately, this will overcome the issue but you'll be running your stove in direct draft mode for at least 20-25 minutes or longer to get your coal going and up to temp. I'd also use stove coal as it will allow air to flow around it much easier getting started. I use stove coal and get ridiculously long burns with it. I hope this helps.
BPatrick
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 2 Crawford 40 Baseheaters
Coal Size/Type: Stove Coal
Other Heating: Herald Oak No. 18

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: Craw4 On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:12 pm

I agree on the use of stove coal, with the depth/diameter ratio of the fire pot in my #4 I find stove coal works best for me, and almost zero unburned coal in the ashpan after shakedown.
Craw4
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford #4, Champion Oak 116
Coal Size/Type: Stove

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: wsherrick On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:36 pm

I have been using a mix of stove and nut in the Crawford. Next year I believe I will use straight stove coal as the Glenwood likes stove the best. Even with the zero degree weather the Crawford 40 only needs attention once every 24 hours. I am running it at 500 instead of 300-400. The coal consumption has only gone up about 10-15 pounds more per day.
Along with the Our Glenwood No 9 which was used for two winters and this Crawford, it is still amazing to me just how stingy they are on coal. There is nothing left in the ash pan but powder, no lumps or unburned chunks.
At 500 degrees the brick lining in the stove becomes incandescent, when fresh coal is added the blue flames erupt almost instantaneously where the coal touches the bricks.
I did a test to see the difference when running the stove at 550 degrees in direct draft versus base burner mode had on the stove pipe thermometer. In direct draft the pipe damper topped out at around 275-300 degrees. When in base burner mode the pipe thermometer began to drop at once. It settled out at around 115 after a few minutes. So a stove temperature of 550 and a pipe temperature of 115 reveals that the stove has a huge radiant capacity. A capacity not nearly reached at 550 degrees.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

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Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: scalabro On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:47 pm

BPatrick wrote:A couple of things as I have two and I'm getting to know the ins and outs really well.

*The entire backpipe needs to be airtight. It will greatly effect draft if over the fire or outside air seeps through at any point. As this is a base heater they do need a good draft. A little bit of over the fire is one thing but several points of air leak will dramatically effect the stove in baseheater mode.

*The postion of your exhaust pipe to the chimney is low. It will not effect your stove in baseheater mode at all because with backpipe dampener closed your gases and heat go through the inner barrel down and around the firebox and then out the bottom of the backpipe and then up to exit out. Now the area where the firepot meets the base of the stove must be airtight or you'll have issues with the stove going into baseheater mode and holding the temps. This is the area where my Crawford has issues. Along with some areas of the stove where air was getting in. Once I sealed the over the fire air, even with a seal issue by the fire pot, it didn't really effect the stove. They work well even with minor problems. Over the fire air seeping in is your worst enemy because it cools your air exiting the stove and slows the draft and then cools the stove.

*Please check and see if this is the correct back pipe for the stove. On both my Crawford base heaters, the exhaust exit to the chimney is higher, look at my threads and William's, it's right at the top on the other side of the direct/indirect (base heater) flap. Someone may have put this one on but I don't think it's correct. You have the collar, you can have the exhaust exit raised and the barrel remade. Again, in base heater mode it will not hurt the stove, but in start up mode or direct draft you could have issues. I'd use Cowboy Charcoal and fluid to get a hot fire immediately, this will overcome the issue but you'll be running your stove in direct draft mode for at least 20-25 minutes or longer to get your coal going and up to temp. I'd also use stove coal as it will allow air to flow around it much easier getting started. I use stove coal and get ridiculously long burns with it. I hope this helps.


Hi Brian?

The position of the outlet flange is as high as I can put it due to the height of the fireplace lintel, it is 31 inches off the hearth.

The MKII is setup with the bottom of its exh pipe @ 22.5 inches off the hearth.

So since it uses a 6 inch pipe It would be possible to get another 2.5 inches of height @ 31, just missing fouling the lintel.

I do not want to modify the T pipe setup going through the damper plate in the chimney, to get to 31(although it's possible) because I consider the MKII my "Mother" stove.

In other words, if, Mrs. Crawford does not operate correctly, I can swap the MKII right back in an hour or so with no T pipe mods.

If you go back and see, I actually raised the exh port about 3 inches from where it was as received.

Also Emery and Brandon assured me that my chimney setup will draft it no problem, I have seen .12+ WC even on 35 * days.

I'm sure the back pipe is gas tight as I sealed it well with cement.

I will post all my findings Saturday for all to see.

Fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Scott
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired forced hot air

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:00 pm

I suspect that back pipe was replaced at some time, and that may account for the lower than usual position of the back flue collar.

If those are Phillips head screws holding that back flue collar on in the picture, they weren't invented until 1931, and didn't hit first production until Cadillac used them in 1933 for their running boards.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:03 pm

Or, Gekko put the flue collar there. Sorry Gek, looks like we posted close together. :D

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: scalabro On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:22 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:I suspect that back pipe was replaced at some time, and that may account for the lower than usual position of the back flue collar.

If those are Phillips head screws holding that back flue collar on in the picture, they weren't invented until 1931, and didn't hit first production until Cadillac used them in 1933 for their running boards.

Paul



Hey Paul,

Yes, those are aircraft "MS" steel screws and hardware.

I'm in aviation so I just used what I'm familiar with, plus they are light years ahead of the "original" hardware as far as strength, corrosion resistance, etc.

I don't mind that the hardware is not "correct".

Cheers,
Scott
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired forced hot air

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: wsherrick On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:36 pm

I am anxious to hear how your first fire goes in it. These stoves are vastly different in operation than a direct draft stove. You will have a learning curve which shouldn't take too long.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:40 pm

" Yes, those are aircraft "MS" steel screws and hardware. ............."

So, it's FAA "air-worthy" now ? :D

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: BPatrick On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:15 pm

Gekko, it won't effect indirect mode. It would only effect getting it up and running. Again a hot fire (start-up) is key and you're going to want to use stove coal. Also, you need to let the coal get hot and most of it get red. Shutting it down too early will give you a cool stove. Get the stove to 500 before shutting it down and it will run just fine. I was shutting mine down too soon as I burned with a Herald No. 18 direct draft stove and was used to half the bed glowing and the other half not but with blue flames. The Crawford wants to get going before you shut her down in indirect draft mode. Now if you want to run your stove 300-350 then shut her down earlier. I heat my big farmhouse with these so they need to be running around 500-550. On a mild day, I'm sure I'll shut them down and want them running at 350. I'd like one of those mild days. Hopefully this helps so your learning curve is a quick one.
BPatrick
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 2 Crawford 40 Baseheaters
Coal Size/Type: Stove Coal
Other Heating: Herald Oak No. 18

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: scalabro On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:31 pm

Thanks for the tips guy's!

I have to work very early Friday, so I may hook up a day early just to get a jump on things. :up:
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired forced hot air

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: scalabro On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:14 pm

It's installed....yea.

For those interested it drafts cold in both direct and indirect mode via the match test.

Got to clean up, get some lump charcoal in town and light it up.

Guess what's under the table cloth with candles and clock?

Be back soon.....
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scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired forced hot air

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:23 pm

Looks terrific Gek ! Glad to hear cold-start draft isn't going to be a problem !!!!!

So, . . . Harman's making end tables now ? :roll: Maybe you can put a shelf in it and use it as a book case ? :D

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: scalabro On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:21 pm

Going well I guess....started with lump, got that going and now I've added 4 scoops of nut.

Paint is cooking off.
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scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired forced hot air

Re: My new Crawford!

PostBy: scalabro On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:51 pm

6 scoops nut

Check damper closed

Secondary air open just a bit

Primary open 1/4 inch

In base heater mode

Chimney drafting .11wc
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scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired forced hot air

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