Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: BrantSFGDS On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:56 am

Has anybody here had issues with their homeowners insurance because of a stove? I tried to cover all my bases before having a stove installed and I talked to a few different insurance agents about the subject after being told flat out by a!?$tate that they will not insure any freestanding stove or anything with a class-A chimney, regardless of who installed it. This info came from an underwriter. Their position is that they will only insure an insert in a masonry enclosure with a masonry chimney.
BrantSFGDS
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Shenandoah
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous, Anthracite
Stove/Furnace Make: Shenandoah
Stove/Furnace Model: FP-I

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:37 am

It seems like every state has their own agenda, my State Farm agent didn't care that I had three stoves (1 not hooked up), maybe because there isn't a bank underwriting a mortgage. I still don't agree with the their premium but I can't do anything about that.

My friend 2 towns over couldn't get coverage because he had a German Shepherd and the agent told him there is a list of dogs that void policies.

Try calling around different insurance company's, but I have a feeling the state or counties have the last word, you made need to get a variance from your local fire chief and shop around for insurance!
Good luck, Mike.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: blrman07 On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:07 pm

I have yet to come across an insurance policy that had an exclusion for stupidity. They do have exclusions allowing them to void a policy for increase of a hazard without notifying the company. Note I am talking about the insurance company itself, not your agent. Agents many times lay their own underwriting rules on top of the actual insurance company underwriter rules.

Why do they do this? Agents are held responsible for the loss ratio for their entire book of business not necessarily individual policies. Each insurance agency usually gets a bonus for having a low loss ratio. Lower the loss ratio, the bigger the year end bonus. Hence many agents, Not The Insurance Companies, put extra exceptions on what type of locations they will submit to companies for coverage. Agents don't provide coverage. Insurance companies provide coverage. Agents submit locations to the companies for coverage analysis, cost of premium etc. Agents don't provide coverage but they can block you from getting coverage with particular companies depending on what they think your loss probabilites are.

Remember, an agent is NOT THE INSURANCE COMPANY......... Shop around at least every three years and see what level of coverage you can get through different agencies. Do you shop around for food prices, gasoline prices, coal prices. Insurance is a commodity just like everything else.

Shop your coverage if your not happy and do it anyway just to see what's on the market.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, reblacking a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: BrantSFGDS On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:15 pm

I was really kind of surprised when I called my agent. He was caught off guard by the underwriter as well. My agent sells insurance for several othe companies that don't have a problem with stoves and the companies I called on my own were fine with it. Weird.
BrantSFGDS
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Shenandoah
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous, Anthracite
Stove/Furnace Make: Shenandoah
Stove/Furnace Model: FP-I

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: NJJoe On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:18 pm

michaelanthony wrote:It seems like every state has their own agenda, my State Farm agent didn't care that I had three stoves (


Interesting. I had state farm trying to insure a home in NH and there was a surcharge fr a solid fuel burning device, whether a central heating stoker or freestanding stove.; wood, pellets or coal. I've since switched to Liberty Mutual and there is no surcharge for that sort of thing.
NJJoe
 

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:47 pm

My neighbor was "caught" by his homeowners insurance with a wood burning stove. I am still amazed that they didn't drop him, they sent a code inspection guy out to look at it and he was impressed with the installation. This stove is about 10" to the wood studs however, there is 3/4" sheetrock, 1/2" backer board, and 2" red brick on the walls surrounding the stove. He says they only upped his rate by $30 I never did ask who his insurer is.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:00 pm

[quote="NJJoe"][quote="michaelanthony"]It seems like every state has their own agenda, my State Farm agent didn't care that I had three stoves ([/quote]

Interesting. I had state farm trying to insure a home in NH and there was a surcharge fr a solid fuel burning device, whether a central heating stoker or freestanding stove.; wood, pellets or coal. I've since switched to Liberty Mutual and there is no surcharge for that sort of thing.[/quote]

When I lived on the N.H. border in Mass. insurance company's didn't give a rat's ass as long as you made your monthly mortgage payment, of course this was during the overly inflated housing market smoke and mirror show in the 90's.

On a slightly different note, I often wonder what insurance company's premium reflect when a home owner is, what is called "under water" where the mortgage is more than the home value. Do they stick with replacement costs only, and rely on P.M.I. to make up the difference after a catastrophe? and does P.M.I. sky rocket when homeowners are upside down?
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: coalkirk On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:14 pm

carlherrnstein wrote:My neighbor was "caught" by his homeowners insurance with a wood burning stove. I am still amazed that they didn't drop him, they sent a code inspection guy out to look at it and he was impressed with the installation. This stove is about 10" to the wood studs however, there is 3/4" sheetrock, 1/2" backer board, and 2" red brick on the walls surrounding the stove. He says they only upped his rate by $30 I never did ask who his insurer is.


Well that "could" be ok depending on the stove. But for a straight up radiant stove that is not adequate. Radiant stoves require 30" clearance to wood studs. Use of 3/4" sheet rock, backerboard and bricks do not mitigate the heat transfer. That would still require 30". It could be cut to 15" with a properly installed heat sheild. But not 10" unless the stove itself has a requirement for reduced clearance due to an intergral heat shield. Just sayin that this "code inspection guy" may not know which end of the barrel the round comes out of.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: Chuck_Steak On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:11 pm

BrantSFGDS wrote:Has anybody here had issues with their homeowners insurance because of a stove?



no
Chuck_Steak
 
Coal Size/Type: mostly nut, sometimes stove, Santa brand
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark III

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:35 pm

coalkirk wrote:
carlherrnstein wrote:My neighbor was "caught" by his homeowners insurance with a wood burning stove. I am still amazed that they didn't drop him, they sent a code inspection guy out to look at it and he was impressed with the installation. This stove is about 10" to the wood studs however, there is 3/4" sheetrock, 1/2" backer board, and 2" red brick on the walls surrounding the stove. He says they only upped his rate by $30 I never did ask who his insurer is.


Well that "could" be ok depending on the stove. But for a straight up radiant stove that is not adequate. Radiant stoves require 30" clearance to wood studs. Use of 3/4" sheet rock, backerboard and bricks do not mitigate the heat transfer. That would still require 30". It could be cut to 15" with a properly installed heat sheild. But not 10" unless the stove itself has a requirement for reduced clearance due to an intergral heat shield. Just sayin that this "code inspection guy" may not know which end of the barrel the round comes out of.



I don't understand how it passed, its just a radiant stove. I think there was something green exchanged.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: coalkirk On: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:31 am

Well I don't have an opinion on that but the required clearances for a radiant stove are very well established distances. Sounds to me like someone did not know what they were doing. The insurance company should vet their "inspectors" more carefully.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:38 am

Interesting. I had state farm trying to insure a home in NH and there was a surcharge fr a solid fuel burning device, whether a central heating stoker or freestanding stove.; wood, pellets or coal. I've since switched to Liberty Mutual and there is no surcharge for that sort of thing.[/quote]

When I lived on the N.H. border in Mass. insurance company's didn't give a rat's ass as long as you made your monthly mortgage payment, of course this was during the overly inflated housing market smoke and mirror show in the 90's.

On a slightly different note, I often wonder what insurance company's premium reflect when a home owner is, what is called "under water" where the mortgage is more than the home value. Do they stick with replacement costs only, and rely on P.M.I. to make up the difference after a catastrophe? and does P.M.I. sky rocket when homeowners are upside down?[/quote]

homeowners insurance does not effect PMI (two different things), homeowners insurance always sticks to replacement cost (though what a racquet that is)... They force you to insure your home at a value of $300k when we all know if the damb thing burned to the ground you could build a brand house for $180k (its like they think your land is going to disappear with the loss :mad: )
and Private Mortgage Insurance... dont even get me going on that :taz:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: coalkirk On: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:35 am

Pretty doubtful anyone is going to build a home worth $300k for $180k. Also that policy covers all your "stuff." Everyone should make a video inventory of their stuff to prove what you had.
But I agree insurance is a racket.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: mmcoal On: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:51 am

coalkirk wrote:Pretty doubtful anyone is going to build a home worth $300k for $180k.

I've actually seen it done recently. 4 bedroom, 3 full bath, living room, dining room, kitchen and a full radiant heated basement for $140K. Of course there is the argument of what is really worth 300K. I know someone who can't get over how much house you can get for 300K right now while I personally feel that most of those sellers are nuts.
mmcoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut

Re: Coal/Wood stoves and insurance

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:18 pm

Sales price of a home and your insurance limit do not equate with each other. What you owe on your home has nothing to do with the insurance limit. The limit on your policy is supposed to be what it would take to build your home from scratch with similar materials. If you disagree you can always ask for an agreed limit. You specify the limit and in the event of a total loss, that's what you get no matter what it would take for you to rebuild your home.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, reblacking a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Visit Hitzer Stoves

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