That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:32 pm

I've been burning Blashack since New Year's. Started out with the bagged anthracite 40# bags then found a dealer who bagged it up in feed bags. The first bunch seemed to have all this burnt shale looking stuff in the pan and the lot didn't go very far. The second batch burns pretty good but the shale looking stuff shows up without regularity. The third batch the guy says is Jeddo. Seems to burn hotter and not as much. Hard to say what is what. The Blashack looks like its been mixed. Some pieces are real shiny and hard, others are dull and crush between the fingers easily. The jeddo looks mostly shiny and is much harder than the other. Is the better coal hard and shiny as a rule or doesn't it really matter? Read on one guys post where he calls the coal "black diamonds' This coal I got in a bag from Blashack should be called something else. Burns well. ;) Scott
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:10 pm

I'm going to try burning off the rest of this crap coal I bought a few months ago. (I've been mixing it..about 50/50 with Blaschak for the last few months) I have about 10 50lb bags left & will try to save the rest of my Blaschak (probably about 12 40 lb bags) for next year. I'll burn the crap exclusively & try to be real careful shaking down the stove to avoid clinker jams. I'll let you know my results!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:03 pm

stokerscot wrote:. The first bunch seemed to have all this burnt shale looking stuff in the pan and the lot didn't go very far. The second batch burns pretty good but the shale looking stuff shows up without regularity. The third batch the guy says is Jeddo. Seems to burn hotter and not as much. Hard to say what is what. The Blashack looks like its been mixed. Some pieces are real shiny and hard, others are dull and crush between the fingers easily. The jeddo looks mostly shiny and is much harder than the other. Is the better coal hard and shiny as a rule or doesn't it really matter? Scott


Hard and shiny is real coal. If it runs through the stoker and there are unburnt pieces in the ash then sift it and run the unburnts through again. I'll almost guarantee they won't burn. I had the same problem when I was burning refuse coal. Since switching to real deep mined coal the unburnt coal in the ash pan has disappeared.
BTW-Thanks to Greg L. for explaining this to me about 1 1/2 months ago.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert


Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: coalstoves On: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:18 am

I think ash consistency is relative to how it is burned, during the recent warm spell when the chimney produced marginal draft or below at times and the fire would simply lay there and cook while I didn't get a lot of heat the ash was reduced to a fine powder with almost no bulk you would almost swear it was different coal in a different stove .

As far as Zero unburned pieces in stoker ash you will almost never find this condition there are too many efficiency trade offs in stove burner designs to achieve 100% combustion :verycool:
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:46 am

coalstoves wrote:As far as Zero unburned pieces in stoker ash you will almost never find this condition there are too many efficiency trade offs in stove burner designs to achieve 100% combustion :verycool:


My stoker is burning the Superior coal almost completely. I keep the combustion fan set at full speed all of the time. I suppose of I dig through the ashes I could find some unburnt pieces, but when I dump the ash pan I really don't see anything other then ash.
The quality of the coal has the biggest effect on the performance of any coal burning appliance.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: coalstoves On: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:53 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:
coalstoves wrote:As far as Zero unburned pieces in stoker ash you will almost never find this condition there are too many efficiency trade offs in stove burner designs to achieve 100% combustion :verycool:


My stoker is burning the Superior coal almost completely. I keep the combustion fan set at full speed all of the time. I suppose of I dig through the ashes I could find some unburnt pieces, but when I dump the ash pan I really don't see anything other then ash.
The quality of the coal has the biggest effect on the performance of any coal burning appliance.


Wow that’s great performance

Aside from a strong testimony for Superior Coal it also says a good bit about the Tri-Burner Stoker design while being one of oldest type designs still in use it is apparently very efficient maybe them folks at Reading Stove are on to something here.
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:45 am

Yes, and that is a triburner modified to run the combustion fan full time, like the modern burners in LL, Alaska, Keystoker. So it is a triburner in name and a LL in operation. The full time combustion fan keep the heat up so all the coal burns completely.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: coalstoves On: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:02 am

LsFarm wrote:Yes, and that is a triburner modified to run the combustion fan full time, like the modern burners in LL, Alaska, Keystoker. So it is a triburner in name and a LL in operation. The full time combustion fan keep the heat up so all the coal burns completely.

Greg L


Tri burners / Old style Alaskans require no modifications to run combustion all the time they use a combined Feed / Combustion blower motor regulated by a rheostat more feed means more air and vice versa much different than a LL that use two separate motors but you know how the LL works already, Mathaus does a modification adding a separate blower and I don't think Wood n Coal did that.

That modification Mat makes would in deed make it resemble the LL operation especially if you used a squirrel cage blower like I pointed out to Wood n Coal in an earlier post .

http://nepacrossroads.com/about2773-105.html#p27253

Running a combustion blower of the size on a Harman 24/7 cost about $4.95 a month by PP&L rates here where I live that works out to about 70lbs of Coal I do not think you see that much a month in the ash pan You trade a more expensive energy to save a cheaper energy and when they pull the rate caps here in Pa that figures gona be even worse .

The obsesion for 100% combustion is not practical but like many things about coal dates back to it's early use.

Hand Fired may be the next big thing :clap:
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:53 am

coalstoves wrote:
LsFarm wrote:Yes, and that is a triburner modified to run the combustion fan full time, like the modern burners in LL, Alaska, Keystoker. So it is a triburner in name and a LL in operation. The full time combustion fan keep the heat up so all the coal burns completely.

Greg L


Tri burners / Old style Alaskans require no modifications to run combustion all the time they use a combined Feed / Combustion blower motor regulated by a rheostat more feed means more air and vice versa much different than a LL that use two separate motors but you know how the LL works already, Mathaus does a modification adding a separate blower and I don't think Wood n Coal did that.

That modification Mat makes would in deed make it resemble the LL operation especially if you used a squirrel cage blower like I pointed out to Wood n Coal in an earlier post .


No, I haven't added a separate combustion fan yet. I've noticed a slight difficulty adjusting the burn rate lately. I believe this is due to fines building up around the carpet, manually moving it back and forth a few times took care of the problem. With a separate combustion fan and the carpet set to "full fire" travel and regulated by the rheostat the longer travel length should remedy this.

Even with high power rates I would rather see an ash pan with ashes in it instead of half unburnt coal because of poor combustion. Poor combustion results in less heat from the stove, to produce enough heat the feed rate would then be raised, the amount of unburnt coal produced would be higher as a result. Of course I could then sift all the ashes, creating more work for myself. Why would I want to waste good Superior coal to save a few bucks on the electric bill anyway?
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: coalstoves On: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:03 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:Why would I want to waste good Superior coal to save a few bucks on the electric bill anyway?
Poor combustion results in less heat from the stove


Well actually we are discussing unburnt coal that would be created during the pilot mode cycle OFF time so heat production isn't the issue . Coal is cheap especially Superior @ 7¢ per lbs so spending Bucks to save Cents makes no sense unless the thrill of no unburnt flecks is real important to a person . Running the combustion blower 24/7 is just an easy out for stove builders compared to regulating it.
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:42 pm

Who said anything about 'pilot mode'?? The combustion fan runs full time, to keep the stoker burning efficiently all the time, if there is 1" of fire on the grate or 6" of fire, either way the combustion is complete because the coal is not starved for air..

The reason the old triburner stoker has been improved upon and in all new stokers except the Reading and the different Harman design, [which is a partial under feed], all the stokers now run the combustion fan full time is BECAUSE it WORKS... And a vast majority of the old triburners and most of the Harman owners have converted their combustion fan to full time... I even put a full time combustion fan on my old antique underfeed Iron Fireman, with very good results.

Nobody makes a design change unless there is a reason for it. Obviously the customers commented enough about wasted, unburnt coal in the ash pan that a new design was put into use. The old ways are just that, the old ways, not necessarily better... ever hear the saying 'necessity is the mother of invention' ?? it was necessary to get better and more complete combustion of the coal on the flat grate stokers... so the inventors redesigned them to work better with a full time combustion fan. and it works.. very well.

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: coalstoves On: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:07 pm

LsFarm wrote:Nobody makes a design change unless there is a reason for it. Obviously the customers commented enough about wasted, unburnt coal in the ash pan that a new design was put into use. The old ways are just that, the old ways, not necessarily better... ever hear the saying 'necessity is the mother of invention' ?? it was necessary to get better and more complete combustion of the coal on the flat grate stokers... so the inventors redesigned them to work better with a full time combustion fan. and it works.. very well.

Greg L.


If you like to look at it that way it's fine with me . :notworthy:
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:48 pm

coalstoves wrote:Well actually we are discussing unburnt coal that would be created during the pilot mode cycle OFF time so heat production isn't the issue .


We were? I wasn't aware of that. I thought we were discussing unburnt coal in the ash pan. I don't recall a reference to "pilot mode cycle off time", unless I missed it.

Bottom line is coal needs air to burn. The TriBurner needs a forced air flow. At a certain CFM the air flow will become too great for efficient combustion. Why not run the air flow at the maximum flow before reaching that point where the efficiency will begin to drop off? What exactly is the point of reducing the air flow through the grate to the point that unburnt coal falls into the ash pan other then being able to see how low the combustion fan can be lowered without losing the fire?

Superior is .07 cents per pound, but what about the fuel used to get it as well as the vehicle wear and tear, and the labor involved in unloading it? Now compare this to the difference in electricity used when the combustion fan is running full speed compared to the lowest speed. Since the standard TriBurner motor is fairly small, exactly how much is the difference in the KWH used?
Also factor in the effort in lifting heavier ash pans due to the unburnt coal and the effort and time involved to sift out the unburnt coal for reuse-if you want to consider every aspect of this topic.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: coalstoves On: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:44 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:We were? I wasn't aware of that. I thought we were discussing unburnt coal in the ash pan. I don't recall a reference to "pilot mode cycle off time", unless I missed it.


I dont know where you guys are off to in this thread, Don't Blame me, LS Brought fans into it I was confused too.
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: That's It- Stick With Blaschak!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:29 am

coalstoves wrote:
Wood'nCoal wrote:
coalstoves wrote:As far as Zero unburned pieces in stoker ash you will almost never find this condition there are too many efficiency trade offs in stove burner designs to achieve 100% combustion :verycool:


My stoker is burning the Superior coal almost completely. I keep the combustion fan set at full speed all of the time. I suppose of I dig through the ashes I could find some unburnt pieces, but when I dump the ash pan I really don't see anything other then ash.
The quality of the coal has the biggest effect on the performance of any coal burning appliance.


Wow that’s great performance

Aside from a strong testimony for Superior Coal it also says a good bit about the Tri-Burner Stoker design while being one of oldest type designs still in use it is apparently very efficient maybe them folks at Reading Stove are on to something here.



It is the highlighted comment that prompted my comment about combustion fans... My comment was to point out that the triburner 'one of the oldest type designs' 'is apparently very efficient' was to point out that Wood 'n Coal is not using his triburner like a standard triburner... he is running the combustion fan near full speed, and is adjusting the feed to get the desired heat output... just about like the LL and new-design flat bed stokers.. The old design triburner, when run as a triburner will give you plenty of unburnt coal in the ashpan,, due to lack of combustion air.

And for an additional $3.75 in electricity per month, I'd rather not throw out coal that I had transported 600miles, or even 50miles. That $3.75 won't buy a gallon of diesel right now.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland