circulator questons

circulator questons

PostBy: 1975gt750 On: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:56 pm

my first question is I have a coal boiler in series with my oil burner. I have 4 circulators for my heat zone and I also installed a grundfos circulator between the coal boiler and oil burner to help with water flow between the two. I see the grundros circulator has a check valve in it. if my dump zone comes on and if the grundros circulator is not on will the dump zone circulator pull the water through the circulator with the check valve? or should I remove the check valve?
my second question is on a taco007 circulator can i just change out the motor or do I have to replace the whole circulator? motor went bad and I don't want to have to drain the whole system.

thanks chris
1975gt750
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kaa-2
Coal Size/Type: rice coal / blaschak
Other Heating: pensotti oil boiler with riello 40 burner
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: kaa-2

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: blrman07 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:55 am

Regarding replacement of the Taco 007 motor replacement the answer is no. You can replace the motor rotor with the impeller as a cartridge but you still have to either drain the system or shut isolation valves.

In order to answer your other question we need to know which direction the flow goes. Does the coal boiler have the dump zone circulator coming off of it or does it come off the oil boiler. If they all come off the oil boiler then your flow should be OK. If they come off the coal boiler then you could have a problem if it tries to pull water backwards through the grundfos.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, reblacking a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: 1975gt750 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:26 am

all my circulators are on my all oil burner. so the flow is going towards the coal boiler. the way i have it plumbed is the hot water comes from the coal boiler into the bottom of the oil burner and the circulators are on the return side of the oil burner pushing the water back to the coal boiler. and the circulator with the flow valve is in the return between the oil burner and coal boiler after the othe circulators.

chris
1975gt750
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kaa-2
Coal Size/Type: rice coal / blaschak
Other Heating: pensotti oil boiler with riello 40 burner
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: kaa-2


Re: circulator questons

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:08 am

As I read just above - your effectively heating the OB with the coal fired appliance -- bravo!!! that is very simple and effective - not the most efficient but very good

ok --- on to the drama

1975gt750 wrote:my first question is I have a coal boiler in series with my oil burner. I have 4 circulators for my heat zone and I also installed a grundfos circulator between the coal boiler and oil burner to help with water flow between the two. I see the grundros circulator has a check valve in it. if my dump zone comes on and if the grundros circulator is not on will the dump zone circulator pull the water through the circulator with the check valve?


no --- you need to make the circulation between the two appliances your dump zone mule - if that pump doesn't run - the zone circulators on the OB will not pull energy out of the Coal Boiler - unless you have incorrectly described - or I have misunderstood you system

1975gt750 wrote:or should I remove the check valve?

should make no difference - again without a clear intimate knowledge of the system -- "It depends"


1975gt750 wrote: my second question is on a taco007 circulator can i just change out the motor or do I have to replace the whole circulator? motor went bad and I don't want to have to drain the whole system.

thanks chris


Sometimes they are still available and sometimes the generation has been obsoleted and you have to renew the whole thing -- take the model and serial number to your supplier and ask! BTW -0----not to pick but... this is why you need isolation valves on these parts

Kind Regards
Sting
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: 1975gt750 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:32 pm

this is my neighbors system not mine i have the same set up as him and it works great for me at my house. the only diffrence is on his system we put a circulator on the return line between the two boilers because the boiler is 30 feet away to help with water flow. the circulator between the two boilers is wired to the aquastat of the coal boiler and the rest of the circulators are using the boiler controls. i made the hot water tank the dump zone. so my question is if the circulator between the 2 boilers is not on because the coal boiler is not demand heat and the coal boiler over heats and turns the hot water circulator on will it flow water though the circulator that is not on between the two boilers? if i was to remove the check valve would it flow then?

sorry to be a pain
chris
1975gt750
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kaa-2
Coal Size/Type: rice coal / blaschak
Other Heating: pensotti oil boiler with riello 40 burner
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: kaa-2

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:07 pm

see above

or

short answers -- no and no and -- It depends :P
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: 1975gt750 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:59 pm

well thanks for the help i will remove the check valve and try it and i guess i see what happens.



chris
1975gt750
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kaa-2
Coal Size/Type: rice coal / blaschak
Other Heating: pensotti oil boiler with riello 40 burner
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: kaa-2

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:02 pm

If you continuously circulate between the two boilers the flow check is not needed.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:36 pm

but but but

What if the check is preventing ghost flow that will bleed energy out of the coal fired appliance and then the OB will sit there as a parasite sending its energy up the old OB stack
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:38 pm

If the circulator is running 24/7 anyway, then what you just described is already occurring.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:39 pm

if it is -- then there is no boiler protection
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: 1975gt750 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:08 pm

after what sting said it looks like i will have to install some zone valves to isolate the zones or the circulator between the coal boiler and oil burner will draw water from all zones. if i was to wait until spring to install the zone valves and eliminate the circulator between the coal boiler and oil burner will the taco 007 circulator have enough power to flow the water between the coal boiler to the oil burner and through the radiators of the house and back to the coal boiler . remember the coal boil is about 30 feet from the oil burner and the feeds between the two boilers is 1 1/2 inch pipe.


thanks chris
1975gt750
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kaa-2
Coal Size/Type: rice coal / blaschak
Other Heating: pensotti oil boiler with riello 40 burner
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: kaa-2

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:30 pm

Chris, you might take the time to install some Webstone Valving for circ isolation and circ replacement. That will be a one time expense and you will never worry about shutting down the boilers again. I need to see a pic of this piping, it is not making sense to me. Feed of the CB goes to the bottom(return of the OB) and the return circs blend with the hot water from the CB and leave through the top (normal) hot out feed. That is fine, however I think you need a circ running all the time between the boilers to maintain temps and a circ with a check installed won't change a thing. It will prevent ghost flow unless you have some check valves in the system someplace. Even check valves stick from time to time and allow ghost flow. Wait until you have to chase that down......you will become a believer. Water chemistry changes the entire game. Another unknown to deal with. ALWAYS install more valves and isolation flanges that you can dream of......and that should be about right.

I do not think that zone valves are the answer here, and 007's with IFC's are cost effective and easy to change out...IF you have isolation flanges.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:44 pm

Sting wrote:but but but

What if the check is preventing ghost flow that will bleed energy out of the coal fired appliance and then the OB will sit there as a parasite sending its energy up the old OB stack


I run my circulator between the coal boiler and OB 24/7. I solved the heat loss problem by removing the OB vent and capping the vent outlet on it. I also physically disconnected a wire from the burner control so it can't possibly fire.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: circulator questons

PostBy: 1975gt750 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:01 pm

coalkirk do you have zone valve or individual circulators? if i run the circulator 24 7 it will push though
the boiler and out to my zones . do you have a picture of how you are plumbed. because on my set up the coal boiler feeds the return of the oil burner and then he hot water goes out to zones and back to the coal boiler. i would think i would need a bypass on the oil burner somewhere.

chris

p.s i am not a plumber just trying to help a neighbor out . if i had it my way i would have but the coal boiler next to the oil burner like my set up, but he thought it would be easier to put the coal boiler in a remote location.
1975gt750
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kaa-2
Coal Size/Type: rice coal / blaschak
Other Heating: pensotti oil boiler with riello 40 burner
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: kaa-2