Looking for imput on coal boiler

Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:12 pm

I have a Hitzer model 254 free standing stove, I have had this stove for over 10 years. The stove woks well, and has never failed to heat my house, no matter what the outside temp is. ( Michigan can get very cold, I love coal heat :D ) I am looking at switching to a coal boiler with the forced air coil, and a plate heat exchanger for domestic water. My wife wants her dining room back, and it would be nice to use the furnace duct work to more evenly heat the house, not to mention get the coal dust out of the house. I have the opportunity to buy a used Keystoker K-AA-2, but I am not sure it will large enough for my house. My house is 1700 sqf. moderate insulation, good windows, and the furnace plenum is 24x25. I don't what to have to fire the boiler at its max. to keep up, when its cold. Any input would be helpful, thanks
Garey
Tryingitout
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak nut
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Oil water heater

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:32 pm

Well, If you have access to the basement ceiling get rid of the scorched air and either buy some old cast iron radiators( best afic) or fin tube baseboards and slap that puppy in. What is the current btu input of the furnace and is it big enough to do the job on its own? might as well get your camera out and snap some photos of the proposed chimney and boiler location. There are gonna be questions comming after work lets out!

wlado
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:43 pm

I like this one!

kstills wrote:
Well, whenever someone asks these types of questions, there is a sort of checklist you'll need to review before any cost effective answer can be made.

1). How big is your current oil fired boiler?
2). Did you struggle with load on very cold days?
3). What is the heat loss of your dwelling?
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/ ... atLoss.htm
Use that link, follow the associated links to determine the type of construction you have, be as accurate as possible, and apply your results towards what you know of your current energy consumption to make sure you're in the same ballpark. We're getting much colder temps this year, so it wouldn't hurt to run your base calculation a few degrees colder than suggested.
4). How much radiation do you have in your home? You said baseboard, how many feet?
5). How much room in the basement for the new boiler?
6). How much are you willing to spend?
7). Do you have room for a coal bin?
8). Do you have a good location for a handfired appliance, one where you can evenly distribute the heat?


First thing to do is figure out what size unit you'll need for your heating needs. Second is to determine what kind of price you're willing to pay to get that heat. A handfired will probably cost less overall, however a boiler will work for DHW better, plus will give you more even heat delivery. A hand fired will use less coal overall.

A dual fuel boiler means you can get rid of your old oil fired and still be covered by insurance. (if the other fuel is oil/ng). Or, you can get a coal fired boiler and tie it into the existing lines, leaving the original oil fired in place for either emergencies or for when you sell the house.

But since your asking, and assuming you have some money in your budget for either choice, I would personally go with the coal boiler. I looked at both, and I'm glad I opted for the dual fuel coal boiler that I bought. I get plenty of hot water, I can run it year round, it makes a lot of heat, and I kept all the existing radiation in my house.
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

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Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:02 pm

Sting, now you've got it!

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:21 pm

Waldo the thought of taking out my forced air system and going completely water did not cross my mind, however I have thought about doing a coal warm air. The way my house is laid out with the many small rooms, I don't think I want to make the complete switch. My current furnace is on old oil forced air, I believe it is 180,000 btu and it kept up just fine. Although I do not use it in the winter, due to the Hitzer. That is unless I have a brain fart and my Hitzer goes out :shock: . I have an old Michigan style basement under part of the house and crawl space in other parts. There is not enough room in the basement, so my plan is to put the boiler in my garage and remove the class A chimney from the Hitzer and rerun it for the boiler. The house was built in the late 1800's and has had many addition over the years. I am in commercial construction and over the years I have been and still are remodeling and bring rooms update, including getting rid of blow in insulation.

I also posted about installing a plate heat exchanger, but forgot to mention that I am going to use my current DWH as a storage tank.
Tryingitout
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak nut
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Oil water heater

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:24 pm

In the hot air system, what are the cross-sectional sizes (diameter or WxH) of any/all trunk lines that come off the plenum?

Thanks.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:39 pm

Mike the cross section of my plenum is 24x25 and all the trunks come off the plenum.
Tryingitout
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak nut
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Oil water heater

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:03 pm

Well, whenever someone asks these types of questions, there is a sort of checklist you'll need to review before any cost effective answer can be made.

1). How big is your current oil fired boiler?
2). Did you struggle with load on very cold days?
3). What is the heat loss of your dwelling?
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/ ... atLoss.htm
Use that link, follow the associated links to determine the type of construction you have, be as accurate as possible, and apply your results towards what you know of your current energy consumption to make sure you're in the same ballpark. We're getting much colder temps this year, so it wouldn't hurt to run your base calculation a few degrees colder than suggested.
4). How much radiation do you have in your home? You said baseboard, how many feet?
5). How much room in the basement for the new boiler?
6). How much are you willing to spend?
7). Do you have room for a coal bin?
8). Do you have a good location for a handfired appliance, one where you can evenly distribute the heat?


Sting not sure what happen I replied to this, but internet evils must have ate it, so I will try again.

I am sorry that I did not see this before, but I will try to answer the questions

1. I do not have a boiler I have a forced air oil burner aprox 180,000 btu
2. We have not ran the furnace during winter in over 10 years, but it had no problem heating the house as long as you feed it lots of money. :shock:
3. I used the calculator not sure what it means, but here are the results. I figured all the calcs extreme UA BTU/Hr F 764, Design Loss BTU Hr 45,840 Yearly Loss Million BTY Year 137.5 It seams like if I were losing 45,840 Btu and hour the 65,000 btu Hitzer would not keep up
4. I do not have any radiation, forced air
5. There is no room in the basement for the boiler and chimney, the plan is to put it in the attached garage.
6. I have the opportunity to buy a K-AA-2 for about $2,000. If that is to small I will look at other makes and models.
7. I am not installing a coal bin
8. I already have a handfired stove, that is the one I will be replacing

I hope this helps
Garey
Tryingitout
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak nut
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Oil water heater

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:51 pm

I was hoping for a little help, is there anyone out there that can give me some more input?
Tryingitout
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak nut
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Oil water heater

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:15 pm

Welcome,Tryingitout, I'm not a sizing expert,but I entered the both units into the search box & found your Hitzer is rated at 55k BTU,the K-AA-2 is rated 80k BTU.If your Hitzer is supplying plenty,the kaa2 should have reserve,but then you have to factor in the DHW btu,s needed too.Seems the cold sent everyone to bed early.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:02 pm

Now I feel a bit foolish though, when I started my post I was at work and going from memory. ( which is not what it once was) After now going and looking at my furnace, I see my supple plenum is only 20x24 and the BTU of the furnace is only 99,000. The plenum it self has 3-6" runs and 1 trunk that is 8x16x5' and that has 6-6" runs out of it. I am planing on using my current 30 gallon oil fired DWH as holding tank with a plate heat exchanger and recuculator pump. I am sorry for the wrong info.

I hope I did not waste to much of anyone's time. Hopefully this is enough info along with the heat loss calcs. in the earlier post, to see if the Keystoker KAA-2 will work for me.
Tryingitout
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak nut
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Oil water heater

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:17 pm

Garage is the only questionable/unknown that I see.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:42 pm

Mcgiever can you explain? Do you think size is good, why not garage? I don't have the room in my basement.
Tryingitout
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak nut
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Oil water heater

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:55 pm

Gasoline fumes from cars,lawn & garden equipment,gas jugs,etc.,none of these mix well with fire :blowup: Some states will approve if the combustion chamber is a minimum of 18" off the floor,as that is where the gasoline vapors are concentrated.Can you remove the oil burner & install the coal boiler there ??
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Looking for imput on coal boiler

PostBy: oliver power On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:11 am

Before I bought a Kaa-2, I'd check into the new Ka-4-1. It would give you that little extra. I heat 1700 square feet using a Kaa-2. It does a great job. During these cold temps, she's running flat out. House is warm, and comfortable 73*. My Kaa-2 is in the basement. If you were to put a Kaa-2 in your garage, and add the load of hot water, I believe you'll be a little on the short side when temps dip to single digits, and below. The Kaa-2 is a good little boiler. Has been for me anyways. Being right on the fence with the Kaa-2, I'd be looking at the next size up if buying new. If the Kaa-2 you're looking at is in good shape, $2,000.00 is a good price. Like I said, you're on the fence.
Last edited by oliver power on Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

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